Attacks in Paris

[Metal Biker]

So how are you dealing with the threat of ISIS then and how do you suggest I and others do the same?

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!

I'm not going to be able to give you a solution and neither are our governments at present. But not being able to have one is not an advocation that the situation is hopeless and we must all despair. The "Oh how tragic, what a terrible loss, when will the world know peace?" rhetoric has been done to death over these incidents, and it has served no purpose other than those not directly affected sitting around waiting to become the next target. Comforting to the victims, yes. Proactive, no. Our collective attitudes need to change from "it's hopeless, utterly hopeless" as many have been, neither should it be "This has to stop!". No, our attitude needs to be "It stops, now." That may involve certain sensitivites being challenged, realities being shaken, I don't know, i'm a lowly civilian exasperated at the same words being repeated over and over by our 'leaders' with little action taken.

I just know that the current response and approach has seen repeat attacks, each one getting worse. I've gone beyond mourning, now i'm more determined in wishing to see ISIS become a 'nothing situation' as I refuse to allow their aggression to bully me into accepting their ideology of life.

 

[Metal Biker]

Not really, its inaccurate, if someone is drowning in front of you, the threat is immediate and obvious, so you act as quickly as possible.

In this case, the threat isnt immediate and certainly not obvious, we need to take stock and react in a more intelligent manner or we will end up with another cluster fuck like Iraq and Afghanistan. Killing innocents in response to killing innocents makes us no worse than those who have done this. We need the whole world to come together first and deal with them together, or the situation will get a lot worse, with Russia being threatened and attacked this is a distinct possibility. When talking of terrorists my attitude has always been enough is enough but only when talking about terrorists. I want IRA stopped but that doesnt mean I want the whole of Ireland obliterating to achieve that.

Again you're talking about a response to a situation, i'm referring to the current mindset from "That poor man is drowning..." to "that man is drowning!"
People are aware there is a problem, but are not really open to the concept of a solution to that problem; it's a defeatist mindset many have and one that needs changing.

 

[WNRH]

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!

I'm not going to be able to give you a solution and neither are our governments at present. But not being able to have one is not an advocation that the situation is hopeless and we must all despair. The "Oh how tragic, what a terrible loss, when will the world know peace?" rhetoric has been done to death over these incidents, and it has served no purpose other than those not directly affected sitting around waiting to become the next target. Comforting to the victims, yes. Proactive, no. Our collective attitudes need to change from "it's hopeless, utterly hopeless" as many have been, neither should it be "This has to stop!". No, our attitude needs to be "It stops, now." That may involve certain sensitivites being challenged, realities being shaken, I don't know, i'm a lowly civilian exasperated at the same words being repeated over and over by our 'leaders' with little action taken.

I just know that the current response and approach has seen repeat attacks, each one getting worse. I've gone beyond mourning, now i'm more determined in wishing to see ISIS become a 'nothing situation' as I refuse to allow their aggression to bully me into accepting their ideology of life.

But with everything you have said there you haven't provided one solution.

I don't think anyone is thinking that all hope is gone, people are thinking that what can be done as every solution has consequences that will fuel the next wannabe terrorist.

You attack ISIS through force, you kill civilians who you then risk through emotion of turning them against the west.

Everyone is thinking enough is enough but how do you go about it?

 

[Proy]

Everyone is thinking enough is enough but how do you go about it?

I don't think there is an answer to that which doesn't involve more innocent people being killed.

These people are coming from anywhere and everywhere. Sitting in their bedrooms on a computer.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Again you're talking about a response to a situation, i'm referring to the current mindset from "That poor man is drowning..." to "that man is drowning!"
People are aware there is a problem, but are not really open to the concept of a solution to that problem; it's a defeatist mindset many have and one that needs changing.

The analogy is still flawed, as the situation isnt the same, so the mindset is different to when you have to respond immediately.

We need to be smarter, more controlled and more devastating. I dont want a solution like those offered in Afghanistan and Iraq, those cost billions and thousands of lives to achieve nothing, in fact they have probably made things worse. We need to be cleverer, box smarter, have everyone on side in determining the correct response, because if we dont, those who arent with us, will more than likely be arming those against us - again.

You are demanding action and a change in mindset but you dont offer any solution, because there is no easy answer, your rhetoric is not much different to those you say are being defeatist, just the language is more forceful, you are venting in anger, which is understandable. Anyway, its late, so I'm leaving this for the moment.

 

[Metal Biker]

But with everything you have said there you haven't provided one solution.

I don't think anyone is thinking that all hope is gone, people are thinking that what can be done as every solution has consequences that will fuel the next wannabe terrorist.

You attack ISIS through force, you kill civilians who you then risk through emotion of turning them against the west.

Everyone is thinking enough is enough but how do you go about it?

I never said I was going to, nor did I even imply I could conceivably think of one.

But my not being able to was not an acceptance that I didn't believe that there ISN'T one, like many on here tonight and on similar incidents in recent months, have done.

"Obama will 'do what it takes for justice!'"

Actions speak louder than words.

"UN condemns 'despicable' attack"

Actions speak louder than words.

All the time it's "we did this before in Iraq and we made ISIS and we're all at fault and there's nothing we can do, there's too many, they blend into society...

Yeah, we get it, some people cannot conceive a solution to this problem. The alternative to defiance is compliance, and can you honestly state that you would be happy to accept a world that allows a state like ISIS to continue to exist? Just because it might 'upset a few people' or 'give some people the wrong impression'? No, of course not, so maybe there are some 'sensitive' souls who will have to admit that their sensitivities may be challenged, their realities about the world may be shaken in order to combat this problem. (No, I don't mean bomb Syria) What I mean, is that Muslim leaders may have to openly engage in combating ISIS, along with the other national Leaders of the world, to take a more proactive solution, not the suggestion that we need more 'dialogue', or 'understanding'. We've tried, they've not listened, they continue to kill.

The main question is this; IF violence was the only feasible solution to defeating ISIS, would you oppose it, abashedly accept or tolerate? You don't have to answer me, that's not my intention to ask you this question, but it's alluding to the point i'm raising; that it is time to seriously consider options like these and not just debate them or be afraid of debating them for fear of aggravating a situation out of fear of perceived reprisals.

 

[Metal Biker]

The analogy is still flawed, as the situation isnt the same, so the mindset is different to when you have to respond immediately.

We need to be smarter, more controlled and more devastating. I dont want a solution like those offered in Afghanistan and Iraq, those cost billions and thousands of lives to achieve nothing, in fact they have probably made things worse. We need to be cleverer, box smarter, have everyone on side in determining the correct response, because if we dont, those who arent with us, will more than likely be arming those against us - again.

You are demanding action and a change in mindset but you dont offer any solution, because there is no easy answer, your rhetoric is not much different to those you say are being defeatist, just the language is more forceful, you are venting in anger, which is understandable. Anyway, its late, so I'm leaving this for the moment.

I never said I would offer a solution to the problem, I don't understand why you keep thinking I've ever stated that or intended to do so.

I'm putting forward a change in our collective attitude in response to these tragic event from one where most people believe the situation is hopeless and choose to lament over the victims until it happens again and they continue to repsond in kind, to one where people no longer fear reprisals for actions taken, out of fear those reprisals could bring about more misery, since it has been shown time and again that our collective lack of 'responses' has concluded the same outcomes regardless. People are killed, we say how sad it is, do nothing to show our seriousness in countering it, it happens again and the cycle repeats. It's not venting in 'anger', it's frustration at the perceived lack of acting upon evil out fear those actions could have repercussions. Yeah, they might, but at least do something instead of sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves.

 

[Blue&whitestripes]

You should be sorry sonny jim, i did and i demand credit, credit from every bastard on this thread you bugger ;-P

In fact where is my parade you set of shits :-D

It was a good read, it is ten to the power of my arse better than the terrible way say the daily mail would do the same article haha, can you imagine xD

Ooops,.. I'll get the parade organised tomorrow, K? :)

It's excellent, thanks for posting it!

PS: I'll admit to being a bastard - ask my Mum - but I'm a female one ;-p~

 

[roj]

Late night supernaive-theory... If I did the Charlie H attack as a result of perceived belittling/piss taking out of my faith - and then watched the two fingers up/screw you guys you can't terrorise us/je suis Charlie t-shirts/more cartoons(iirc) reaction to it - I'd probably think 'right then', and start planning something like what just happened. Obviously not trying to justify it, just speculating with v little knowledge about it. If you work for the intelligence service, pm me and I'll send you my cv, it's shit.

 

[basokla]

Actions. Speak. Louder. Than. Words.

Your sentiments of remorse and condemnation, as are everyone's, are very respectful and welcomed, but it does nothing to aid towards preventing this from happening again elsewhere. Making comparisons of sufferings in other nations only serves to highlight the incentive that a more active approach needs to be adopted, not just by those ISIS target, but by everyone who opposes their poisonous 'ideology'. Mourning the victims and highlighting the plight of others, however honourable, has done nothing to halt their influence, has it. A defeatist attitude, certainly doesn't.

Bravo sir, bravo.

 

[stony]

Jason Manford had his facebook account temperately suspended because of his reaction.

Jason Manford shared a furious post on his official Facebook account in response to the horrific Paris terror attacks which saw at least 140 people lose their lives.

The comedian slammed the “cowards” in the expletive-ridden post, which later saw him have his profile completely removed from the social media site.

“F**king cowards. Slaughtering innocent unarmed people for what? Families and children enjoying life, theatre, meals? Not an army vs army you f**king cowards," it began.

"For what? In who’s name? Are you doing this in the name of your god? Cos I've got news for you, if you think your 'god' is gonna reward you for this type of atrocity then your god is a massive c**t.
The dad went on: “I hope you are all caught and murdered in a similar agonising way you f**king scumbags. You are an embarrassment to humanity and a s**t stain on all of humanity. You will never defeat us, we are too strong you utter b**tards (sic)."



While his profile and the post with it was swiftly taken down for apparently breaching Facebook's strict guidelines, his fans continued to share a screen grab of his post on Twitter.
“Exactly where have I been Islamaphobic?” he replied on Twitter.

While writing to someone else, he then shared: “I’d say the same no matter what religion. My track record is proof enough I simply dislike extremists. As we all do."

Hours later, his profile had been reinstated but the post removed.
But while those re-posting it mainly supported what he was saying, one Twitter user branded him "Islamaphobic".

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebri...manfords-facebook-6830456#ICID=FB_mirror_main

i wouldn't normally provide a link to those cunts, but in mind of the warning from their shyster lawyers.

 

[EalingBlue2]

As long as simplistic extremists on all sides of all conflicts continue to believe the world can be classed as good v evil, black v white etc then this will always happen as it always has.

We can fight fire with fire which has worked so well so far with nearly 500000 dead in this fire fighting or we can fight fire with water and try and put it out.

All I know is that you don't defeat fascist ideology by being fascist yourselves that is admitting defeat. I find it dreadfully sad and dreadfully predictable that the religious extremists and far right are the only people who gain from these things and they don't realise just how alike they are. Hate is what we need to defeat!

We need Liberte egalite and fraternite to triumph and that means being true to those values and together defeating this evil.

I suspect there will be more though, ISIS is on the back foot where it is fighting and it can do nothing against drones and jets so it is attacking back in a way it can. It has to be crushed but what will fill the vacuum? As al Qaeda was weakened we spawned ISIS. As we defeat one enemy another comes up. If we condemn a whole people and marginalise a whole people over the acts of a few we start to prove our enemy right and create a bigger enemy.

As for Metal Biker saying we should ignore the excuses, the reasons and causes nothing could be worse . That is like trying to tackle a heart condition whilst allowing the patient to continue drinking, smoking and taking Coke. We need to eliminate the enemy, we need to eliminate the causes and we need to eliminate the excuses and maybe then we can defeat this enemy. We have defeated far bigger, stronger enemies that killed 1000's X more people than died tonight and we will defeat this one.

As for Paris I am devastated to see innocent people in a place I love attacked by mindless extremists whilst going about their Friday night!

 

[EalingBlue2]

Bravo sir, bravo.

What actions will solve it , nothing more simplistic than calling for action - straight out of the Rumsfeld, Bolton play book. Damn right action is needed but taking the wrong action is like pouring petrol on a fire and taking the right action is what is needed

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Ripped from the headlines. Apologies ahead of time for the video quality...not mine.



Not advocating anything, just commenting on the lack of any cogent reasons or responses for the inhumane and egregious actions...on both sides! Both sides think they are on the side of history, because both sides have a different vision for life. How does one fight an enemy that is willing to do absolutely anything, often things deemed unimaginable by most "normal" people? Does fire defeat fire or create more devastation? Is it even possible to be surgical in a response to such atrocities?

Certainly more questions than answers at this point, but it appears to me that the normal realm of "law enforcement" actions are simply brushed aside by these attackers. When people are willing to simply walked into a crowded room and blow themselves up, how does one counteract that? When someone lives next door to you, says Hello every day, but wakes up one day with the ability and desire to create devastation, how do you solve that problem? As was discussed ad nauseum after 7/7, how do you respond to the "enemy within"?

Again, I don't have any answers, only questions at this point, because my visceral reaction is kill them...kill them all...but who?

 

[SWP's back]

But but ... These Muslim leaders don't speak out do they ? So some say after every bloody attack.

No really a time for point scoring is it.

You're as bad as the islamophonic loons calling for ISIS to be nuked.

RIP all those that just wanted to enjoy a Friday night out in Paris.

 

[basokla]

What actions will solve it , nothing more simplistic than calling for action - straight out of the Rumsfeld, Bolton play book. Damn right action is needed but taking the wrong action is like pouring petrol on a fire and taking the right action is what is needed

Well, you tell me. What is the right action?

And before you answer, please remember these extremists HATE YOUR WAY OF LIFE. And they HATE MY WAY OF LIFE. Funny how that works isn't it?

 

[EalingBlue2]

Well, you tell me. What is the right action?

And before you answer, please remember these extremists HATE YOUR WAY OF LIFE. And they HATE MY WAY OF LIFE. Funny how that works isn't it?

Like most things in life it will be a long hard multi faceted struggle over many many years to defeat them. naziism took 1-2 decades, Stalinism/what passed as communism 45 years. It will take an approach from the ground up, it will take change in many many countries, it will take soldiers, $'s, .

Unfortunately we live in a world today inhabited by millions of people who hold no concept of time, no convey of hard work and who want simplistic answers to everything. These impatient simplistic populist reactions have got us where we are now - hopefully some adults can take over at some point!

They hate my way of life and I love my way of life and I will not defend my values by adopting theirs

 

[RandomJ]

Boots on the ground may not work in terms of defeating the ideology but surely we can destroy their infrastructure. You don't just pop down to your local B&Q to buy automatic weapons and suicide vests. These guys were highly trained in using the guns and explosives, they clearly have training camps, they clearly have weapon caches. We may not be able to bomb and shoot the ideology but we sure as hell can hit them in other places.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Fucking scum.

And to think I was speculating that a stadium would be a prime target for these savages only last week.

Really don't realise how great a threat these scumbags and their sympathisers pose to our way of life.

 

[basokla]

Like most things in life it will be a long hard multi faceted struggle over many many years to defeat them. naziism took 1-2 decades, Stalinism/what passed as communism 45 years. It will take an approach from the ground up, it will take change in many many countries, it will take soldiers, $'s, .

Unfortunately we live in a world today inhabited by millions of people who hold no concept of time, no convey of hard work and who want simplistic answers to everything. These impatient simplistic populist reactions have got us where we are now - hopefully some adults can take over at some point!

They hate my way of life and I love my way of life and I will not defend my values by adopting theirs

I'm not sure your comparisons to the Nazis or Stalinists really apply today. I think this new threat is not a snake with a head that can be cut off - even if it takes many years. I wish it were that simple but I just don't think it is. And even in those two examples - both involved war(s) that took many lives unfortunately.

I do agree with you about the world in general wanting simplistic answers. But what if the answer truly is simplistic? What if the "adults" come to the conclusion that this will not end and the only decision really to be made is do you want this battle fought on your territory on on theirs?