Attacks in Paris

George Hannah said:
here's the article referred to
A Letter From the 11e
Posted on Nov 19, 2015 in Features, Main Features | 0 comments



Cutter writer Ahsan Naeem is a resident of Paris, a city that he loves and calls home. In a week that saw its football stadium, restaurants, clubs, and way of life come under attack he tells his story.

It’s taken six days or so but I realise that I need to formulate words onto a screen to help me come to terms in some small way with what happened in Paris last Friday evening.

Where was I when my friends and acquaintances were scattered across the 10 and 11 arrondissements in Paris? At home in my apartment maybe a quarter of a mile from the Bataclan, a quarter of a mile from Rue Charonne, and a couple of miles from Le Carillon. To begin to unfold why that’s significant is a little like removing the bandage from a particularly nasty wound knowing what I find underneath is still bleeding.

Proximity is only one part of it. Physical proximity. The real proximity, the thing which cannot be fully expressed in words, is the emotional proximity. The Bataclan is somewhere I knew like the back of my hand. Having worked in music for many years, I had the privilege of seeing many of my favourite bands there, of working with bands who played there. The smell of the room, the shape of the room, the access points in and out, where the merchandise desk sat, how the entrance led to a sunken dance floor where we would congregate to dance and drink and laugh with our friends.

Le Carillon was no different. A hub for Parisians and ex pats alike. Sitting on a crossroads with Le Petit Cambodge, and the first pizza place in Paris I ever visited. Two of my closest friends lived in an apartment on the same street. The chances of not one of my close friends being there last Friday night were so ridiculously remote that quite frankly realising on Saturday morning that none of us were was just more numbing information. How close the calls were are no less harrowing.

Two friends of mine exchanged text messages on Friday night.

“What are you doing tonight?”

“I think I’m gonna eat at the Petit Cambodge and then sit on the terrace at Le Carillon – what about you – you wanna join us?”

“No, fuck that I’m going to see Eagles at the Bataclan – but after the gig I’ll join you at Le Carillon”

He got out of the Bataclan with a bullet in his leg but otherwise intact. He’s okay. The other friend, the one who was going to take his girlfriend to eat and drink at that crossroads. His laziness saved his life. He never made it out of his apartment. Small mercies.

Others weren’t so lucky. My good friends lost friends. My wife to be lost a dear friend. The lady who teaches yoga on the ground floor of our building lost her best friend. There’s so much loss around the City and around our neighborhood that it feels like it’s been hollowed out. Something profound that made this City and this neighborhood pulsate has been removed. A beating heart has momentarily been stopped.

Now we crave normality again. I want the sound of sirens to stop. For the news media trucks to go away. For the sound of idle chatter on the metro to return. I want to be able to walk down Boulevard Voltaire in both directions, towards Rue Charonne, and towards the Bataclan, with the same joy and wonder with which I walked down it for the first time 7 years ago.

In my head I want to go back to caring about the trivial things. I want to listen to the football podcasts that have piled up this week. The Anfield Wrap, the Guardian Football Weekly, the Times Football podcast. I want to record my own podcast for the City v Liverpool match this weekend. I want to smile at the thought of Sterling scoring in front of the LFC supporters. I want to care about the result. Care about the match. Make it feel important. Because as trivial as everything feels right now, the trivial things feel important because they help remind me that life WILL go on.

I tweeted this on Saturday morning because it’s an emotional truth. “Paris is my home, the 11e is my home, the Bataclan is my local, Rue Charonne my neighbour, the restaurant (Le Petit Cambodge) my living room.”
My heart goes out to everyone who suffered and everyone suffering not just in Paris, but all over the world. We should stop killing each other before it’s too late.

Thank you Stephen and the Daisy Cutter for indulging me in this.



We’ll forever be on terraces across the City. That terrace I’m sitting on in this picture is just a stone’s throw from the first restaurant to be attacked. We’ll go back there this weekend in defiance.
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I enjoyed that @BillyShears bud.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
This is way too over the top now.

Again, where are the national anthems of other country's that have been attacked recently ?

Will we having national anthems of other country's every time there's an attack in the future ? really see the premier league fans singing along to the German anthem ?

It really doesn't serve much purpose extending the condolences further
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At least the French national anthem is a decent tune unlike the dirge that is our national anthem. Wish we could swap.
 
I will go along with any commemorations they wish us to take part in. But it does seem to me to be strange that sport (football in particular) seems to have acquired an obligation to lead the way with these sorts of public displays of sympathy. I know the fact that some of the bombings took place at the Stade de France brings it closer to home, but will they be doing this sort of thing before any rock concerts this weekend, or at cinemas, theatres, operas, ballets, restaurants etc?
 
cibaman said:
I will go along with any commemorations they wish us to take part in. But it does seem to me to be strange that sport (football in particular) seems to have acquired an obligation to lead the way with these sorts of public displays of sympathy. I know the fact that some of the bombings took place at the Stade de France brings it closer to home, but will they be doing this sort of thing before any rock concerts this weekend, or at cinemas, theatres, operas, ballets, restaurants etc?
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How many people will be watching the average cinema group, dinner party or even rock concert on TV worldwide?
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
It was no more stupid than your utterly ridiculous comment that it's OK to kill gay people if that what the bible says.
But you had to say that didn't you because if you didn't, it undermines your whole position that Islam is wholly to blame for the psychopaths of ISIS & Boko Haram. The truth is that if someone were to do that, citing the bible as their inspiration, we'd rightly regard them as deranged rather than blaming Christianity.
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You an expert in strawman arguments?

You threw your grenade into the thread and can't back it up, and now you're totally misrepresenting my argument to suit.

Nowhere did I say that it was okay to kill gay people if that's what the bible says, what the fuck are you on about?

You said there was doctrine in the Old Testament that could be used to justify the killing of gays, I recognised this, but pointed out that there is no such real world problem with Christians taking these texts literally and killing gays in acts of terrorism, motivated by the Old Testament. It's a moot point.

That is something which is very much a problem with Islam, at present - religious texts being taken literally, and used to justify violence in the present day.

If there was an equivalent problem with Christians killing gays and citing verses from the Old Testament at present, damn right I'd be holding the Old Testament responsible.

But there isn't, in no small part due to Christianity having a reformation and there being a New Testament, where most of the nasty stuff was taken out.

That's what a lot of people are arguing Islam needs at present, a reformation. Majid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali for example, both argue this extensively.

As they recognise there is a link between the religious doctrine, and real world behaviours and consequences - something you're completely dismissing.

And even trying to tar me as a bigot for highlighting. As I said: pathetic.

Just to add, I never said Islam as a faith is wholly responsible for IS, that's another strawman of your concoction. I said that you cannot dismiss the links between their religious beliefs, drawn from the Koran, and their actions as a group. To dismiss that is cowardice.
 
cibaman said:
I will go along with any commemorations they wish us to take part in. But it does seem to me to be strange that sport (football in particular) seems to have acquired an obligation to lead the way with these sorts of public displays of sympathy. I know the fact that some of the bombings took place at the Stade de France brings it closer to home, but will they be doing this sort of thing before any rock concerts this weekend, or at cinemas, theatres, operas, ballets, restaurants etc?
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New Order came on stage in London with a tribute to the French and Hot Chip have just played in Paris and done exactly the same.
By attacking football and pop concerts it was an attack on our culture. I am glad we carried on and rightfully shown solidarity. It really could have been a lot of us on here that were at a pop concert or football match that got targeted.
 
Jesus that video footage from the restaurant is scary, how lucky are those two women outside, I'd be buying a lottery ticket this week if I were them.
 
coleridge said:
I am not ignoring questions. I just don't have answers. Many [mostly Sunni] Muslims would say that it's beauty lies in the lack of authority [such as the Pope]. All religions are spiced with local culture. What one thinks of individual cultures is a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

However, I strongly urge you to not be taken in by those with agendas. For example [leaving out the 'Z' word], you might not be in fear of Hindu violence but many Muslims in India are. There are regular, state-supported massacres. The Hindus are always second [after the Zs] on the terrorist bandwagon. That's why there are still over 900k Indian soldiers occupying Kashmir and trying to bring in more Hindus to 'ethnic cleanse' the area, much as the Chinese have done in TIbet. Of course, Buddhism is a trendy religion and the Dalai Lama really cool. Personally, I think that he is a lying, despicable parasite. Anyway, you'll get Hollywood stars meditating for Tibet. Not one of them ever even mentions occupied Kashmir or [heaven forbid] the continued genocide of the Palestinian nation.

You need to think more in the round, my friend. Personally, I wish the whole world has a Western, liberal, democratic culture that allowed free expression of religion and atheism. Sadly, that's just a dream. I'll defend Western values tot he death. However, I will not meekly sit by and accept the lies, hypocrisy and greed of the powerful and their acolytes, be they Christian, Jewish, Atheist [say, China] or Muslim.
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Thanks for the response mate.

Re the violence in India/Pakistan, I'll have to read up more on that particular issue, but do you think the violence and crimes you've highlighted are centrally motivated by Hinduism as a faith?

I think it's an important distinction to make, as the point I was trying to make previously was that many Muslims find justifications for violence within the Koran itself, and that often goes nicely hand in hand with a political goal they might aspire to. I don't think the same can be said of Hinduism, although I'd be willing to be corrected there if I'm mistaken.

That's not to say that political, ethnic, or sectarian violence is any less contemptible than religious violence of course, but it's a separate discussion, from my perspective.

One of the reasons religious violence poses a threat to many different countries and peoples is that belief in an idea transcends borders. It eclipses regional conflicts like the one you highlight, and just needs willing minds to spread and procreate.

Specific religious beliefs can then become intertwined with multifaceted political beliefs and often geopolitical conspiracies to form an ideology of its own. All these beliefs come together to create a specific ideology which knows no borders, and can be spread via any platform, be that online or in person. That's what makes IS so dangerous, and that's why I believe people have to be intricately critical of every facet of such an ideology, including a central part which goes all the way back to interpretations of verses within the Koran. Would you agree?

I appreciate that you're certainly with the rest of is in wanting to see an end to this violence, so I'm grateful for the response.

Could you elaborate on your point re frustration regarding the lies, hypocrisy and greed of the powerful, and other religious/non religious groups please mate?

Cheers.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
You an expert in strawman arguments?

You threw your grenade into the thread and can't back it up, and now you're totally misrepresenting my argument to suit.

Nowhere did I say that it was okay to kill gay people if that's what the bible says, what the fuck are you on about?
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And I've already said I misread the post but that it doesn't change my argument. If Peter Sutcliffe claims God drove him to kill prostitutes or the Westboro Baptist Church claim that that homosexuality is a mortal sin and that dead GI's are a punishment from God for the USA allowing it, we say they're nutters, not that they have a point or that the Archbishop of Canterbury and all Christians should condemn them and need to bring them into line. We don't blame Christianity for the actions of an extreme minority.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
And I've already said I misread the post but that it doesn't change my argument. If Peter Sutcliffe claims God drove him to kill prostitutes or the Westboro Baptist Church claim that that homosexuality is a mortal sin and that dead GI's are a punishment from God for the USA allowing it, we say they're nutters, not that they have a point or that the Archbishop of Canterbury and all Christians should condemn them and need to bring them into line. We don't blame Christianity for the actions of an extreme minority.
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The Westboro Baptist Church are arguably the most extremely bigoted Christian group in the Western world. They're a single large extended family with a few others.

How many people have they killed?

It's a dishonest argument. And it only serves to muddy the water and obfuscate this debate.

If there was never a New Testament, and Christians were following the Old Testament, with many advocating the stoning/hanging of gays, and there were fundamentalist Christians committing terrorist attacks against gays citing verses from the Old Testament, then you'd have a point.

And I assure you I'd be drawing the same conclusions that their hate and motivation to violence was drawn from religious doctrine, just as I am in respect of fundamentalist Muslims.

Can't get anymore straightforward than that.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
And I've already said I misread the post but that it doesn't change my argument. If Peter Sutcliffe claims God drove him to kill prostitutes or the Westboro Baptist Church claim that that homosexuality is a mortal sin and that dead GI's are a punishment from God for the USA allowing it, we say they're nutters, not that they have a point or that the Archbishop of Canterbury and all Christians should condemn them and need to bring them into line. We don't blame Christianity for the actions of an extreme minority.
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Nobody blames all Christians for the words of the WBC but yes of course all other Christians should speak against them, and louder than non-christians do, as it's more likely to reflect badly on them.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Well come on Parents for starters, think about it:

"Mum, I'm going to Syria to join ISIS and become a suicide bomber after my A Levels"
"That's brilliant Mohammed, wait until I tell your uncle Akhbar, he'll be so proud, make sure you kill some filthy Kaffirs for your mummy"
"Thanks Mum, I knew you'd be proud!"
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You joke, but:

 
Prestwich_Blue said:
And I've already said I misread the post but that it doesn't change my argument. If Peter Sutcliffe claims God drove him to kill prostitutes or the Westboro Baptist Church claim that that homosexuality is a mortal sin and that dead GI's are a punishment from God for the USA allowing it, we say they're nutters, not that they have a point or that the Archbishop of Canterbury and all Christians should condemn them and need to bring them into line. We don't blame Christianity for the actions of an extreme minority.
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You are not acknowledging that it is not 0.0001 percent. It is a significant percent of the Muslim population who have sympathy for such attacks. No one knows exactoy but it is certainly not as small as you are suggesting. Many Muslim people have acknowledged this in the media even today. Also when was the last Christian terrorist attack??
 
The problem with a lot of this "who speaks out" and when and where is, even in this digital age, we only get the story we are given by our news media, most of us have no clue what some islamic countries are saying on a daily basis about all this, only what is reported with our media's angle.Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called the attacks a "crime against humanity" and Qatari Foreign Minister Khaled al-Attiyah, who said they were "heinous"Indonesian President Joko Widodo, leader of the world's most populous Muslim nation, said that "Indonesia condemns the violence that took place in Paris." Kuwaiti leader Emir Sheikh Sabah al-Sabah called the attacks "criminal acts of terrorism which run counter to all teachings of holy faith and humanitarian values". yet none of these quotes were part of the world leaders one in our press. If christianity, hinduism, buddhism had terrorist cults causing such death and angony, I wouldn't condem all christians/hindus/bhuddists as being the same.

It is very unhelpful to vilify all Islam for the acts of these cunts, and in a time like this we need our media to be completely ballanced and report facts and not stir up rhetoric to suit their own agendas

Look at yesterday in asia and russia it's reported that Putin has named 40 countries, with some being members of the G20 (Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States) that are dealing with Di'ash, but not a thing is reported as this would be embarrassing western countries and allies so we hear nowt about it as it doesn't fit the Russia isn't helping narative. the only way we will defeat these cunts is if all agenda's, proxy wars and bullshit by the main world players is put to one side and they just get on with beating them.
 
What's disgusting about ISIS, they have hijacked a perfectly peaceful religion Islam for their own nefarious political gain.
 
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