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Attacks in Paris
- Thread starter RandomJ
- Start date
Rammyblues
Well-Known Member
If history teaches us anything about fanatical fighters you have to be more evil than they are. In WW2 the Japanese had suicide bombers (literally) and it took two nuclear devices to stop them.
You need to read the Trolling advice from @Ric. I fight against the objectionable views of some Muslims every day so that my family and I have also received death threats. It's a shame that you are incapable of understanding and/or accepting my words but that's a matter for you. I'll carry on asserting freedom.Coleridge, you miss the point yet again. The message we have heard for many years now is that these people are not Muslims and don't represent the views of muslims. That this is not associated to Islam and these peoples views are completely different to all normal muslims.
I know this to be untrue. I know many muslims and have worked and lived in the middle east. I have sat down to eat with highly educated and erudite men and women and listened to the conversation as it turned to subjects such as 9/11 and Israel. I have held my tongue while people talked of Jews not being human but simply dogs and how in the end they will be wiped out because for every Jewish child born there are 10 Muslim children born. I heard that verbatim from a senior manager in a large engineering company in Jordan.
This kind of extremism is not at all uncommon in Muslims communities everywhere. Ive heard it all over the muslim world. And yes Ive travelled to many many muslim countries with my work. I've even helped many thousands of Muslims do Hajj by flying to and from Jedda from North Africa for a couple of months twice in the early 2000's flying with muslim crews from Algeria, Jordan, Egypt amongst others. I have also trained pilots from Saudi Arabian Airlines, Air Egypt, Royal Jordanian and others. I always get on well with them because they take me to be from the middle east due to my looks. They also express views which they probably wouldn't in other company. I speak from a wide experience of the muslim world.
You claim again and again the the extreme views which eventually lead to normal people becoming radicle terrorists don't exist in everyday Muslim life. Well I think you are wrong and so does Sadiq Khan.
In my life, I get taken for white, Jewish, Arab, Asian and many other things [depends on my level of suntan]. So I've heard everyone's tales when they think 'the other' lot are not around. Same goes for the abysmal way most men of all backgrounds talk about women. All sections of society express lazy, stereotypical views of others.
You do seem desperate to be correct and prove me wrong. I am not interested. My dick is big enough. Cheers.
It's a kind offer but I've had enough of Trolls for one week.Lets have a bit of Ying Tong then eh? I'll start you follow and promise I won't claim you're trolling me mate Lol !!
See what? Lies, Damn Lies & StatisticsWhy am I deranged? I am going to the match on Saturday and am having to think where I will put my bag which I have taken for ten years to buy programmes from Karl in Mary d,s. I will probably be delayed and have to get searched as will my 70 year old dad who takes a flask and packed lunch. (And I am nightly pissed off that this is because some nutters believe I a make believe God and want to bomb people who don't) He has been going for 50 years. I am a peaceful man and want no one executed or imprisoned providing that they don't want to hurt me, my family or the country I have loved living in. Many Muslims I have come across have sympathy for extreme views and even if they don't they don't actively come out and do things to help this dire situation. People can take this piss all they want but statistics show it to be true. all i want is anyone who shows any support whatsoever for Isis - for example the prick from toddmoden who said look out Manchester you are next. Throw him in jail for ten years. My son goes to a private school and ninety percent of his class is Muslim and it is wonderful and I am good friends with many of the parents. I debate this subject with them every week but there are some fundamental issues in that religion which need to be addressed. If you can't see that what can I say?!
http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/trolling-please-read.317346/To be fair, he's managed to make himself look foolish without too much help from others.
Chris in London
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 21 Sep 2009
- Messages
- 13,886
I can't pretend to know precisely how relevant the Old Testament is to modern Christianity, maybe you know more than me in that respect. My only perspective is that fundamentalist/militant(whatever you want to call it) Christianity doesn't pose the threat to the world that Islam's equivalents do.
A clue is in the fact that the King James Bible - in use today and introduced in 1604 - consists of the Old Testament and the new.
PragueBlue
Well-Known Member
While that's true, I think that's more for historical context than for its teachings. I suspect most Christians follow the teachings of Christ and/or Paul rather than the Old Testament.A clue is in the fact that the King James Bible - in use today and introduced in 1604 - consists of the Old Testament and the new.
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worsleyweb
Guest
See what? Lies, Damn Lies & Statistics
Is that the best you can come up with having called me deranged? Sick of hearing this 1% bollox.
13% of British Muslims think that the four men who carried out the London Tube and bus bombings of July 7, 2005, should be regarded as “martyrs”
7% agree that suicide attacks on civilians in the UK can be justified in some circumstances, rising to 16 per cent for a military target
16% of British Muslims say that while the attacks may have been wrong, the cause was right
2% would be proud if a family member decided to join al-Qaeda.Sixteen per cent would be “indifferent”
56% of British Muslims believe that the Government is not doing enough to fight extremism, more than the 49 per cent of the whole population who agree
50% think the intelligence services have the right to infiltrate Muslim organisations to gather information about their activities and the way they obtain funding
65% of British Muslims say that their community needs to do more to integrate properly with British society
Forty-five percent are convinced that 9/11 was an American/Israeli conspiracy—and that number rises to 51 percent among Muslims aged 18-24. Thirty percent would rather live under sharia rather than British law and 28 percent would like Britain to become an Islamic state. Eleven percent have firmly decided that British foreign policy justified the July 7th bombings, and 31 percent of young Muslims agree with this idea. Sadly, this is no rogue poll. Other surveys have come up with very similar results.
The researchers found hardline material at a quarter of the 100 mosques visited during the project.
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worsleyweb
Guest
It's the moderators I feel sorry for.
Answer the question!
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/14/uk-jewish-antisemitism-rise-yougov-pollIs that the best you can come up with having called me deranged? Sick of hearing this 1% bollox.
Forty-five percent are convinced that 9/11 was an American/Israeli conspiracy—and that number rises to 51 percent among Muslims aged 18-24. Thirty percent would rather live under sharia rather than British law and 28 percent would like Britain to become an Islamic state. Eleven percent have firmly decided that British foreign policy justified the July 7th bombings, and 31 percent of young Muslims agree with this idea. Sadly, this is no rogue poll. Other surveys have come up with very similar results.
Nearly half of the British population agreed with one of four antisemitic statements presented to them according to a new poll, which found that one in eight of those surveyed believe that Jewish people use the Holocaust as a means of gaining sympathy.
It also found that one in four (25%) Britons believed that Jews chase money more than other British people, a figure which rose to 39% of those participants who identified themselves as Ukip voters.
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worsleyweb
Guest
the guardian - say no more and I thought we were debating the Muslim faith not Jewish faith. Do 2 wrongs make a right?
PragueBlue
Well-Known Member
Both are quite shocking surveys.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
No but you were quoting a survey questioning attitudes among Muslims and I'm showing that attitudes among British people appear to be just as bad in some areas. So are you going to apologise on behalf of all British people for their anti-semitism? And I suspect attitudes to Muslims are even worse, particularly in light of last week's events.the guardian - say no more and I thought we were debating the Muslim faith not Jewish faith. Do 2 wrongs make a right?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is the expression I believe.
And you are getting close to be considered trolling, which is an unfortunate trait of yours.
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worsleyweb
Guest
No but you were quoting a survey questioning attitudes among Muslims and I'm showing that attitudes among British people appear to be just as bad in some areas. So are you going to apologise on behalf of all British people for their anti-semitism? And I suspect attitudes to Muslims are even worse, particularly in light of last week's events.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is the expression I believe.
And you are getting close to be considered trolling, which is an unfortunate trait of yours.
In your opinion which I have zero respect for. Burning down mosques and rather donate to Alex Ferguson than Children of Palestine appeal posts Spring to mind. Awaits 24 hour ban for speaking the truth.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
They'll leave it to G4s to protect us.
ha ha ha - better get one of those funeral plans they advertise on telly sorted out !!
Chris in London
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 21 Sep 2009
- Messages
- 13,886
While that's true, I think that's more for historical context than for its teachings. I suspect most Christians follow the teachings of Christ and/or Paul rather than the Old Testament.
Nonetheless PBs point remains true: the historical text says what it says. It is the decision of the individual practitioners of christianity not to adhere literally to some of the more extreme aspects of the bible in exactly the same way that it is the decision of individual practitioners of islam that they will adhere literally to some of the more extreme aspects of the koran. The extreme violence adopted by some followers of islam can no more be attributed to islam itself than the comparative absence of terrorist attacks perpetrated by christians in the modern world can be attributed to christianity itself. To do otherwise essentially absolves the sociopaths in Paris of their personal responsibility for the crimes they committed.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Is that the best you can come up with having called me deranged? Sick of hearing this 1% bollox.
13% of British Muslims think that the four men who carried out the London Tube and bus bombings of July 7, 2005, should be regarded as “martyrs”
7% agree that suicide attacks on civilians in the UK can be justified in some circumstances, rising to 16 per cent for a military target
16% of British Muslims say that while the attacks may have been wrong, the cause was right
2% would be proud if a family member decided to join al-Qaeda.Sixteen per cent would be “indifferent”
56% of British Muslims believe that the Government is not doing enough to fight extremism, more than the 49 per cent of the whole population who agree
50% think the intelligence services have the right to infiltrate Muslim organisations to gather information about their activities and the way they obtain funding
65% of British Muslims say that their community needs to do more to integrate properly with British society
Forty-five percent are convinced that 9/11 was an American/Israeli conspiracy—and that number rises to 51 percent among Muslims aged 18-24. Thirty percent would rather live under sharia rather than British law and 28 percent would like Britain to become an Islamic state. Eleven percent have firmly decided that British foreign policy justified the July 7th bombings, and 31 percent of young Muslims agree with this idea. Sadly, this is no rogue poll. Other surveys have come up with very similar results.
The researchers found hardline material at a quarter of the 100 mosques visited during the project.
yeah but can counter that by asking how many non Muslim Britains still think the Paris attacks were caused by illegal immigrants? How many Britains over estimate the size of the Muslim/black/Asian/Polish ( insert your minority as you'd like ) population in the UK? How many people are proud / indifferent to a member of family joining a far right group like BNP or BF? Same question for far left organisations.
It all depends on your starting point for your views and beliefs and where you get your information from I suppose. Then what you are prepared to believe - I seem to recall an awful lot of US citizens think odd things about 9/11 like the controlled explosion theories etc - should we be equally concerned about America? In my view its about moderation in views, quality of education and unbiased sources of information that affect all this. How you get that I am not sure but it does lead nicely into the last bit where aside from I suppose depending on your definition of hardline material if 25% of mosques have access to it on premises then yes that is something that clerics have to address rather than just dismissing radicalisation as something that happens at home and on line rather than on their premises.