allblues09
Well-Known Member
I do not disagree, but being able to do it in a pragmatic, planned manner is a different scenario than being forced into it through injury.
Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2015/16
- Thread starter Danamy
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Mr Ed (The Stables)
Well-Known Member
Last season with a fully fit back four, he constantly chopped , rotated and changed them. This season is different our best defenders have hardly played, Kompany and Zabletta.
Question will he play the same starting back four on Saturday as he played on Tuesday night. Answer is "NO" in my opinion. Do you think otherwise?
allblues09
Well-Known Member
No. I think sagna will be back and maybe rotate kolarov with clichy. AK has played a ton of games this year and clichy was out of position.
My point is that planned rotation is different than being forced by injury. And having Kompant and Zab injured this year has been a killer, although Sagna has been better than last year by leaps and bounds.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Yes they have.
The ones who are talking about winning the quadruple etc. It isn't going to happen.
But we may win the title. I recon we are at least 30% better than anyone else, so we should do. The Champs Lg would need a fluke, because there are several teams better than us, but Chelsea & rags have had flukes & won it, in Chelsea's case with DiMatteo as manager. He also won the FA Cup at the same time, which of course proves he should still be managing Chelsea, as it was all down to him, obviously, as no way could they possibly win those trophies without a truly great manager.
Or perhaps they just had fucking good players, like City.
billymumphrey
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Apparently not in this case. Apparently it was the team who made their own luck.....
http://www.squawka.com/news/raheem-sterling-toure-gave-inspiring-half-time-team-talk/542811
Raheem Sterling: Toure gave inspiring half-time team talk
Raheem Sterling has hailed team mate Yaya Toure’s rousing half-time team talk, inspiring Manchester City to turn their final Champions League group game around.
"There was definitely a great connection in the changing room with the team talk from Yaya [telling] the boys to dig deep if we needed to and that’s what happened and it’s a credit to the spirit in the camp,” Sterling said"
To be honest - that is the least I would expect any player with seniority in the squad to say. It's a non story really.
What would be concerning is if no player said anything.
allblues09
Well-Known Member
So I think the quadruple comment may have been aimed at me. I do not think that we will win the quadruple, but I find it amazing that you seem completely closed to the idea of Pellers staying, regardless of what he may achieve this year. I guess to each their own, but I would embrace that type of success with both arms and leg
You must have been on Mars when you came up with that username then.
Even if we win the quadruple then I'd like Pellegrini to go.
This situation reminds me an AWFUL lot of the Mancini thing though I personally was against him going at the time due to some different circumstances. There will be people who cling to the idea that this club should have a great manager then stick with them for a long time. Unfortunately this is just not the model that our owner has elected to run the club with and there's very good circumstantial evidence to suggest that this is actually an extremely bad thing for the club even if they are successful.
Take Alex Ferguson for example. The plight that United are currently in can be almost entirely lay at his door. He failed to keep his training methods current, he failed to keep his backroom staff inventive and refreshed and due to his success it gave the United board an excellent excuse to fail to build the proper HR, scouting, performance analysis and executive structures in place that a modern football organisation really need. Simple really, Fergie controlled it. Want a new U21 Manager? No probs, one of Fergie's mate will give it a go regardless of their qualification. Need a new Chief Scout? No worries, Fergie's brother is into scouting a bit. Need someone to work in the sports science departments? No probs, Fergie's secretary's son has just done a degree in that or something. Bring them on board.
And this is perfectly fine as long as Alex Ferguson is there to keep everything together and in fact is probably better overall than the alternative system. As long as Alex Ferguson is there to hold it all together.
What happened to United is that David Moyes walked in and now wasn't even called David Moyes any more. He was called "Not Fergie" instead. I see the United logic here, he similarly ran Everton as a one man band and knew a lot of the same people that Fergie did so could keep the wheel turning for another 20 years potentially. The problem though is that David Moyes similarly ran Everton as a one man band so wasn't interested in Fergie's staff so brought his own over almost wholesale. Fergie's players like Rio Ferdinand took one look at Moyes and publicly said "I don't know why he is doing things differently". Because he wasn't a manager who they listened to, he was just Not Fergie.
Van Gaal is just a bad, an absolute nutter who should have never been given a top job ever again but he's a big name and United with their complete lack of executive structure jumped on it because they're morons. I genuinely hope after he leaves their next manager is Giggs or another of their Class of 92 as they constantly have to refer to their past to blind their fanbase to the fact that they are selling away their future. They bang on about philosophy without any understanding at all of what this entails in a post-Ferguson era. Van Gaal has a philosophy of a football team. We have a philosophy that shapes every decision made in the club from an executive level which in turn dissolves into a playing, development and recruitment philosophy. Comparing these two things is like equating nuclear power station and nuclear bombs because they both have nuclear in their name
So discussions of different regime types out of the way, we hopefully pretty much agree that limited terms managers are probably a good thing in football. They don't allow one person to have to big of an imprint on the club, clubs can up or downsize depending on their success (because having Davey Moyes locked in to a 4 year contract without breaks when Pep Guardiola and Jose Mourinho came on the market was probably not the best decision ever), and enthusiasm of the players is always kept as high as possible. These are the cycles that Soriano talks about.
I say this feels like the Mancini thing because it feels like this is the right time for Pellers to get his handshakes and move on, not just because of a couple of results but because of the situation we find ourselves in. The club has just announced a deal for investment valuing it at two billion pounds. We've successfully navigated the tricky FFP waters and now are expressing what we feel should be the proper spending levels bringing in players and the quality that we should be bringing in. Our sister clubs in New York and Melbourne are now beginning to establish and forge their own identities, as well as the existing expansion into Japan, Africa and potentially China or South America next. The training facilities have been built, moved into and the youth teams now have their own proper facilities and stadium. The women's team are breaking attendance records and challenging for titles. With people like Denayer, Iheanacho, Garcia and Maffeo we have a small group who you feel are ready right now for first team roles of differing degrees. We've got out of the group stages for the third year running in the Champions League and although enthusiasm is still low, the attendances are slowly creeping up as the fanbase sees UEFA recognised worldwide for the corrupt bureaucrats we've known them as since 2008. As a club we have transformed more under Manuel Pellegrini than I suggest we've done under any other manager in history - the Wigan FA Cup seems like a decade ago in terms of how much we've grown since then in every part of the club.
But stability is lethargy when it comes to building the biggest club in the world. We've grown almost as far as we can under Pellers. Let's say 90% of what we could reasonably have hoped for. Do we, in the summer, knowing that he can take us another 10% give him another year or do we cast our eyes over to our stated number one target probably since 2008 in Pep Guardiola and see where we end up when he takes us 90% of the way he can?
Concentrating on whether Pellers should go depending on if we pick up six points against Norwich or PSG have a goal ruled on or offside just seems to me like an incredibly small view of picking the next manager. We're ready for the next man as a club and I think we've already secured him. Even if Pellers wins the CL in a resounding 10-0 Final victory against Barca it doesn't matter because his time is over. I think we almost all agree that if it's not over then it certainly feels like it is beginning of the end rather than the end of the beginning here.
Losing our long term target in Pep Guardiola who can give us yet another boost of energy and momentum in the right direction because we feel understandably sentimental for our current manager would be an incredibly poor decision and not one which I believe our board will make.
Sacking him before the end of the season would be ludicrous but keeping him past this summer would be equally abhorrent. Get behind him for the next 6 months whilst he attempts to go out on top then welcome in the new guy.
This situation reminds me an AWFUL lot of the Mancini thing though I personally was against him going at the time due to some different circumstances. There will be people who cling to the idea that this club should have a great manager then stick with them for a long time. Unfortunately this is just not the model that our owner has elected to run the club with and there's very good circumstantial evidence to suggest that this is actually an extremely bad thing for the club even if they are successful.
Take Alex Ferguson for example. The plight that United are currently in can be almost entirely lay at his door. He failed to keep his training methods current, he failed to keep his backroom staff inventive and refreshed and due to his success it gave the United board an excellent excuse to fail to build the proper HR, scouting, performance analysis and executive structures in place that a modern football organisation really need. Simple really, Fergie controlled it. Want a new U21 Manager? No probs, one of Fergie's mate will give it a go regardless of their qualification. Need a new Chief Scout? No worries, Fergie's brother is into scouting a bit. Need someone to work in the sports science departments? No probs, Fergie's secretary's son has just done a degree in that or something. Bring them on board.
And this is perfectly fine as long as Alex Ferguson is there to keep everything together and in fact is probably better overall than the alternative system. As long as Alex Ferguson is there to hold it all together.
What happened to United is that David Moyes walked in and now wasn't even called David Moyes any more. He was called "Not Fergie" instead. I see the United logic here, he similarly ran Everton as a one man band and knew a lot of the same people that Fergie did so could keep the wheel turning for another 20 years potentially. The problem though is that David Moyes similarly ran Everton as a one man band so wasn't interested in Fergie's staff so brought his own over almost wholesale. Fergie's players like Rio Ferdinand took one look at Moyes and publicly said "I don't know why he is doing things differently". Because he wasn't a manager who they listened to, he was just Not Fergie.
Van Gaal is just a bad, an absolute nutter who should have never been given a top job ever again but he's a big name and United with their complete lack of executive structure jumped on it because they're morons. I genuinely hope after he leaves their next manager is Giggs or another of their Class of 92 as they constantly have to refer to their past to blind their fanbase to the fact that they are selling away their future. They bang on about philosophy without any understanding at all of what this entails in a post-Ferguson era. Van Gaal has a philosophy of a football team. We have a philosophy that shapes every decision made in the club from an executive level which in turn dissolves into a playing, development and recruitment philosophy. Comparing these two things is like equating nuclear power station and nuclear bombs because they both have nuclear in their name
So discussions of different regime types out of the way, we hopefully pretty much agree that limited terms managers are probably a good thing in football. They don't allow one person to have to big of an imprint on the club, clubs can up or downsize depending on their success (because having Davey Moyes locked in to a 4 year contract without breaks when Pep Guardiola and Jose Mourinho came on the market was probably not the best decision ever), and enthusiasm of the players is always kept as high as possible. These are the cycles that Soriano talks about.
I say this feels like the Mancini thing because it feels like this is the right time for Pellers to get his handshakes and move on, not just because of a couple of results but because of the situation we find ourselves in. The club has just announced a deal for investment valuing it at two billion pounds. We've successfully navigated the tricky FFP waters and now are expressing what we feel should be the proper spending levels bringing in players and the quality that we should be bringing in. Our sister clubs in New York and Melbourne are now beginning to establish and forge their own identities, as well as the existing expansion into Japan, Africa and potentially China or South America next. The training facilities have been built, moved into and the youth teams now have their own proper facilities and stadium. The women's team are breaking attendance records and challenging for titles. With people like Denayer, Iheanacho, Garcia and Maffeo we have a small group who you feel are ready right now for first team roles of differing degrees. We've got out of the group stages for the third year running in the Champions League and although enthusiasm is still low, the attendances are slowly creeping up as the fanbase sees UEFA recognised worldwide for the corrupt bureaucrats we've known them as since 2008. As a club we have transformed more under Manuel Pellegrini than I suggest we've done under any other manager in history - the Wigan FA Cup seems like a decade ago in terms of how much we've grown since then in every part of the club.
But stability is lethargy when it comes to building the biggest club in the world. We've grown almost as far as we can under Pellers. Let's say 90% of what we could reasonably have hoped for. Do we, in the summer, knowing that he can take us another 10% give him another year or do we cast our eyes over to our stated number one target probably since 2008 in Pep Guardiola and see where we end up when he takes us 90% of the way he can?
Concentrating on whether Pellers should go depending on if we pick up six points against Norwich or PSG have a goal ruled on or offside just seems to me like an incredibly small view of picking the next manager. We're ready for the next man as a club and I think we've already secured him. Even if Pellers wins the CL in a resounding 10-0 Final victory against Barca it doesn't matter because his time is over. I think we almost all agree that if it's not over then it certainly feels like it is beginning of the end rather than the end of the beginning here.
Losing our long term target in Pep Guardiola who can give us yet another boost of energy and momentum in the right direction because we feel understandably sentimental for our current manager would be an incredibly poor decision and not one which I believe our board will make.
Sacking him before the end of the season would be ludicrous but keeping him past this summer would be equally abhorrent. Get behind him for the next 6 months whilst he attempts to go out on top then welcome in the new guy.
cleavers
Moderator
Good post Damo, and I agree with your assessment, however in the unlikely event....
I'm sure that there is a plan for him too, and that he knows that he has a job lined up, whether the Chile job, which could be announced prior to the end of the season, as an opportunity "he can't turn down", and City "wouldn't stand in his way", or some other job working for Sheik Mansour on another project.
I think they might find that one tricky to negotiate, they'd certainly struggle with the "sack" word anyway. Of course he could announce before hand that that game will be his swansong no matter what, and the players subsequently turn it on for him.
I'm sure that there is a plan for him too, and that he knows that he has a job lined up, whether the Chile job, which could be announced prior to the end of the season, as an opportunity "he can't turn down", and City "wouldn't stand in his way", or some other job working for Sheik Mansour on another project.
NanaToure42
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A simple no, but I'd sack him in May when Pep comes would have sufficed.
just kidding, excellent post. I agree with almost every word and point made, except for possibly the 10-0 thing.
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