We need defenders who can defend

fatbloke said:
As a top team you simply have to defend on the front foot, absolutely no question about it.

You may well get short term success (ala Mourinho) playing a very defensive, containing system and counter attacking but teams soon get used to it and shut up shop, take the 0-0 and they're happy.

To be successful long term you have to score goals and front foot defending as risky as it is gives you far more opportunities to score on counter attacks.

People moan about Pellegrini and the system we play but it is let down by the lack of work rate and desire in midfield, nothing else.
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And sloppiness. No system was responsible for that 2nd goal on Saturday. It was just very poor defending.
 
OB1 said:
I suugest you go and check your facts: the team that have been champions in England in the last several years have more often been the team that scores the most goals rather than the team with the best defence.
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You get my point,pedantic or what fuck me
 
disagree about the OPs opinion on Sagna, doesnt put a shift in? bloody hell, he runs himself into the ground! and i think the defence is capable of being one of the best in the league (but i grant you it's not outstanding) but it is exposed far too many times by the 6 players in front of it
 
OB1 said:
I suugest you go and check your facts: the team that have been champions in England in the last several years have more often been the team that scores the most goals rather than the team with the best defence.
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And after further analysis,I suggest you look at the stats since the Premier League started,out of 23 seasons,16 league winners have won the league by losing the fewest games,so now do you get my point ?
 
shemnel said:
disagree about the OPs opinion on Sagna, doesnt put a shift in? bloody hell, he runs himself into the ground! and i think the defence is capable of being one of the best in the league (but i grant you it's not outstanding) but it is exposed far too many times by the 6 players in front of it
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Yep. Sagna has done good enough. And yea, our midfield is not doing its doing its job. If we are going to push high and attack so much then the central two need to be quick, mobile tacklers. Yaya is many, many good things but he is none of those things and shouldn't be asked to be.

Not at all convinced about Mangala though. Just does not look anything but maybe next season if he's still here.
 
It's the system and team selection of the central midfielders - not the defenders. Though Mangala and Kolarov together can be a bit ropey.
 
The funny thing is, if you look at the whole table, it's our home record that's dreadful. There are no less than five teams, going right to Watford in tenth place, who've conceded fewer than us this season at home. Despite that whacking at Spurs, our away record doesn't compare that badly to every one else.
But I have to say this, having had another look at them. In real time, those two we conceded on Saturday looked bad enough. But when you get to see them over and over, in slow motion, they are truly abysmal. Especially the second. I have difficulty imagining that any team up around our position in the table could concede a goal like that, direct from a throw-in, ffs ! And even for the first goal, well, the Hammers player simply runs past Yaya as if he's not there.
If Pep is coming — or even if he isn't — this has just got to be sorted out. And I agree that it's not just a question of the back four (or even the central back two). It's also the kind of protection, or absence of it, that they're getting immediately in front of them.
If we do win the title, it'll be on the basis on which Liverpool expected to win it in 2013-14. However many you ship, always expect to score more. But if I remember rightly, that ended in tears, didn't it? At Crystal Palace, was it?
 
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We have been guilty of ignoring the english talent in this respect and have been more willing to spend on expensive foriegn players with poor results

After lesscott bar demechellis who we bought for 4m odd there havent been one defender that has been consistent enough to partner kompany, someone like shawcross coukd have been a good partner for kompany, got leadership qualities and knows the english league well,would have costed less money than otem n mangala even though he is english, stones is a good defender to but doesnt look like were gona go for him
 
Citizen in Pakistan said:
We have been guilty of ignoring the english talent in this respect and have been more willing to spend on expensive foriegn players with poor results

After lesscott bar demechellis who we bought for 4m odd there havent been one defender that has been consistent enough to partner kompany, someone like shawcross coukd have been a good partner for kompany, got leadership qualities and knows the english league well,would have costed less money than otem n mangala even though he is english, stones is a good defender to but doesnt look like were gona go for him
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Don't think that's fair mate, I think both Mangala and Otamendi have looked fine partnered with Kompany. It's just any other combination that looks dodgy imo.
 
Not John Stones....!! Directly cost 5 or 6 goals since Xmas. And got away with that blatant penalty on us. Great on the ball. Questionable defender
 
Joe Royle put in defenders who could defend in 2000/01, the same with Keegan in 2004/05.
 
littlemarkyc said:
i sorry your analysis of Sagna is wrong, he can defend and has been excellent this season.
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He's been good, but he was at fault for both goals against Stoke purely because he seemingly couldn't be bothered tracking runs. He also had the ball taken off him for Mangala's own goal against Liverpool. He's been the best of a bad bunch but his level is quite a bit lower than that of what Zabaleta's level was a couple of years ago - before his injuries imo.
 
I think we've bought a couple of average defenders in Otamendi and Mangala. Otamendi does have his qualities. He covers well and is very strong in the tackle.But both are rash, reactionary defenders. Otamendi's ability on the ball has to the most overrated thing I have ever seen going by what people make of him on here. The ocassional decent pass sandwiched in between sliced clearances and complete thin air clearances isn't good enough. Otamendi is better than Mangala but as I said in the summer, he was a flavour of the month defender who was signed partially because of a good goal scoring season in Spain. He scored 6 league goals I think and be scored the winner (iirc) at the Bernabeu to end Real Madrid's ridiculous winning streak. It was these headlining moments that lead to him appearing on people's radars. He still isn't much different from the defender who was loaned back to South America after starting his European career fairly poorly. He's an alright defender, but not close to top class.

Mangala is physically brilliant but mentally and technically not great. He lacks the intelligence needed to be top class and I'm not sure he will ever learn it.

The difference between us with Kompany and us without him isn't a coincidence. He is streets ahead of anyone else at the club at centre back. As bad as the rest of the team are at protecting the back four, Kompany seems to be able to hold everything together at the back. All Otamendi(to a lesser extent), Mangala and Demichellis seem to do is add to the chaos.
 
We really needed to bring in a good defender in January...or a loan player. Sadly, I think we might fall just short in the major competitions due to our defensive frailties.
 
We've needed a decent left back for years now and really should've done a better job in getting the right partner for Vinny. We have probably one of the most exciting attacking units in the world and one of the poorest defences. I think we have a lot to thank Joe for that were still in the race for trophies.
 
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Interesting how opinion is starting to change on Otamendi. I got slated week after week at the start of the season for suggesting he's quite a poor defender, his hollywood reel tackles earned him a hell of a lot of plaudits on here and he quickly become the new bluemoon darling who could do no wrong. I think he'll be one of the first out under Pep unless he decides to turn him into a destroyer type midfielder in the mould of De Jong. Pep insists on good positioning, Otamendi ignores positioning completely half the time and just chases the ball like a dog on heat. I still have faith Mangala will turn into a great defender under a manager that isn't Pellegrini. I think we'll go into next season with Kompany, Mangala, Denayer + a new defender with that +1 preferably not being Stones who i just don't think is very good at actually defending.
 
KippaxCitizen said:
Watch Stones closely. He's an exceptional talent with the ball at his feet for a young defender, yet I actually think he's not a particularly good defender.

I've said the same about Cahill for years; Cahill is actually quite a poor defender.
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This has been my conclusion from watching him. That said, I'd absolutely have him here. I belong to the minority who believe being a footballer is more important than being a tackler at CB.

So I'm a huge Stone fan.
 
Rolee said:
Don't think that's fair mate, I think both Mangala and Otamendi have looked fine partnered with Kompany. It's just any other combination that looks dodgy imo.
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When you spend much money as we did on defenders you would expect better performances without kompany who is injury prone. I like them both and hopefully they will come good, and God bless pellers for bringing in demi who is still argubly our second best defender after kompany
 
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