Tackling the issue!? Are we getting a raw deal from the referees?

[Colins Bellend]

NO

 

[Saddleworth2]

After much frustration at referee decisions (of which City appear to always be at the negative end of) and the result of having spare time on my hands due to a deserved ban for venting my frustration in a non positive manner, I decided to have a look at the question on everyone's minds; Are we getting a raw deal from the referees?

So I thought perhaps we should approach this question from a subjective standpoint and look at what is factually correct and not fall in line with the media and believe one of the following party lines:

• These decisions even themselves out over a season
• Each team is on the end of poor decisions - just accept it!
• Manchester City have so much money that the referees shouldn't be able to influence the result.
• The players aren't performing, it's their fault not the referees!
• It's just paranoia, take off your blue tinted specs!

I have been so incredibly frustrated this season and have left the Etihad and other away grounds with my blood boiling, incredibly frustrated and feeling cheated. It would appear that after being on the receiving end of some unbelievable decisions it would be beneficial to look at the stats and facts surrounding referees decisions for and against Manchester City this season and understand some of the raw statistics.

Table 1: Premier League 2015/2016 Tackles, Fouls and Cards

​

What can we interpret from this table and how do we define if these statistics show referee anomalies or poor aptitude or attitude from Manchester City players??

• MCFC have made only 343 successful tackles and lost 624 tackles, this is the worst in the Premier League
• Only WBA and NOR have complete less successful tackles than MCFC
• MCFC with 624 tackles lost is the highest in the league, we have lost 158 tackles more than Swansea and over 100 more tackles than Arsenal.
• MCFC tackles ratio is 0.54 (20th) compared to 0.85 LIV (1st), 0.84 TOT (2nd) and 0.79 LEI (3rd)
• This perhaps comes as no shock due to the work-rate we have seen from Liverpool, Spurs and Leicester this season - I hope we have identified this as an area to address in the Capital One Cup Final.
• MCFC receive a card every 5.9 tackles (15th) compared to Chelsea 7.5 (1st), Arsenal 7.5 (2nd), ManU 7.1 (4th) and Leicester 6.9 (5th) - so what does this mean; MCFC receive a booking for every 6th tackle, Chelsea and Arsenal appear to be treated more leniently by referees and receive a booking after 7th/8th tackle. This may be coincidental so I'm not jumping to any conclusions here.
• Looking at these figures as raw data it would appear that MCFC have a major issue and are not competitive enough in the tackling department, is this driven by tackling technique, player mentality or bias applied by the referees?
• We have received the 15 more yellow cards than Arsenal this season
• Our foul ration is average (we were ranked worst in Europe for this statistic last season) - see table 3; i'm not sure how we achieved neutralization of this factor but would appear we are receiving more balanced refereeing decisions on fouls overall - could this be due to MCFC being awarded more fouls due to the severity of the decisions the referees have made this season - paper over the cracks!?

Table 2: Premier League 2012/2013 – 2015/2014 Present – Ref Rank

​

Chart shows simplistic (not opponent/match specific) breakdown of referee / pts obtained over past 4 seasons.
MCFC results are ranked against Referees and the referees at the top of the chart are the referees we have had least success whilst we are playing against/ when they are officiating.
From a count of 21 matches this season; Mark Clattenberg has officiated against Manchester City 4 times.
From those games City have accrued 4 points out of a possible 12 and have been on the receiving end of 5 major decisions which I will detail in Table 4.

These major decisions looked like this and were clearly not mistakes but choices!

We lack of protection and rough treatment Aguero has received this season has been another huge cause for concern among most, the general consensus being that he gets less protection than most other strikers.
He is continually fouled from behind and is consistently on the receiving end of horror tackles like the ones from Dann and Wanyama this season.

​

Table 3: Fouls For against ratio from 2014/2015 season

​

As mentioned above this concern would now appear obsolete but is something skewing the statistics?

OK if there is something more sinister then we must investigate this; best place to start would be to review the major decisions for and against City this season. My analysis is detailed below and findings show a 9 point swing due to referee decisions which can be defined as major game changing decisions.

Table 4: Major Decision Review

​

Interesting the same names continue to appear when you review these major decisions; Mark Clattenburg, Robert Madley, Craig Pawson and Anthony Taylor

Great work Madchester. Interesting stats on our tackles. Definitely something there for pep to work on. Must be down to a number of factors including the high line defence we adopt. Do you have a breakdown of tackles made by each squad member. That would be interesting.

As far as the rest goes, not sure what to say. The very essence of sport is that it has to be fair. Mrs Saddleworth used to tell me that football was 'fixed'. I laughed it off. This season is the first time in my life I do believe some form of bias or corruption is at play. I get that the club wants to be dignified and professional in all its dealings but I think following Sunday, they do need to make a fuss about this if only to bring a spotlight to it and not let the media continue to airbrush these decisions out of history. 9 additional points would have put us top of the league and I don't get how people can say that we should win despite these decisions. How does that work? Handicaps are fine for horses, not for football. I genuinely feel better about losing when we are comprehensively outplayed rather than when we are cheated, because that's what this is. Clattenbergs decision was so bad it goes way beyond incompetence as does that Linesman who waved offside every time Kun touched the ball in the second half but can't spot a Spuds player 2 yards offside in the first game. Something way way wrong.

 

[bluetev]

Did we actually test lloris on Sunday pal? I think the pen influenced the game but it didn't decide it. We have had a few call go our way as well. Sterling vs Everton for instance? I think if we play well this thread doesn't exist. I think there is an anti city agenda in the media for sure though.

Frankly there is a difference between being impartial and talking bollocks.
So you think we should effectively win the league by ten points or thrash a top four team such as spurs by 2-3 goals to compensate for free offside / penalty goals to the opponents?

Do you even go to matches or just a random troll - because otherwise you would recall us on the receiving end of 2, maybe 3 dodgy decisions over the two legs of the league cup fixture involving the sterling assist - which was so marginally out, it needed multiple replays to prove it was out. In contrast to the clear foul on Aguero prior to an Everton goal or the equally clear penalty not given to us.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Frankly there is a difference between being impartial and talking bollocks.
So you think we should effectively win the league by ten points or thrash a top four team such as spurs by 2-3 goals to compensate for free offside / penalty goals to the opponents?

Do you even go to matches or just a random troll - because otherwise you would recall us on the receiving end of 2, maybe 3 dodgy decisions over the two legs of the league cup fixture involving the sterling assist - which was so marginally out, it needed multiple replays to prove it was out. In contrast to the clear foul on Aguero prior to an Everton goal or the equally clear penalty not given to us.

was with you up until the marginally out ball and the foul on Aguero. if we got that petty with fouls and stuff the whole game would be ruined. Yes could of been a free kick but then Barkley ran through our team and scored a very easy goal that could of been defended on the half way line.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

Great work OP. could you do a % of possession per foul for us and our opponents (just in our games) over the last couple of seasons. ;)

Our tackling is plainly awful you only have to watch to see our midfield isn't mobile enough to catch players to tackle them.

 

[Claytop]

When we're playing well we still manage to win irrespective of the refereeing, but couple the bad decisions with our poor play for most of the season and we find ourselves where we are.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

After much frustration at referee decisions (of which City appear to always be at the negative end of) and the result of having spare time on my hands due to a deserved ban for venting my frustration in a non positive manner, I decided to have a look at the question on everyone's minds; Are we getting a raw deal from the referees?

So I thought perhaps we should approach this question from a subjective standpoint and look at what is factually correct and not fall in line with the media and believe one of the following party lines:

• These decisions even themselves out over a season
• Each team is on the end of poor decisions - just accept it!
• Manchester City have so much money that the referees shouldn't be able to influence the result.
• The players aren't performing, it's their fault not the referees!
• It's just paranoia, take off your blue tinted specs!

I have been so incredibly frustrated this season and have left the Etihad and other away grounds with my blood boiling, incredibly frustrated and feeling cheated. It would appear that after being on the receiving end of some unbelievable decisions it would be beneficial to look at the stats and facts surrounding referees decisions for and against Manchester City this season and understand some of the raw statistics.

Table 1: Premier League 2015/2016 Tackles, Fouls and Cards

​

What can we interpret from this table and how do we define if these statistics show referee anomalies or poor aptitude or attitude from Manchester City players??

• MCFC have made only 343 successful tackles and lost 624 tackles, this is the worst in the Premier League
• Only WBA and NOR have complete less successful tackles than MCFC
• MCFC with 624 tackles lost is the highest in the league, we have lost 158 tackles more than Swansea and over 100 more tackles than Arsenal.
• MCFC tackles ratio is 0.54 (20th) compared to 0.85 LIV (1st), 0.84 TOT (2nd) and 0.79 LEI (3rd)
• This perhaps comes as no shock due to the work-rate we have seen from Liverpool, Spurs and Leicester this season - I hope we have identified this as an area to address in the Capital One Cup Final.
• MCFC receive a card every 5.9 tackles (15th) compared to Chelsea 7.5 (1st), Arsenal 7.5 (2nd), ManU 7.1 (4th) and Leicester 6.9 (5th) - so what does this mean; MCFC receive a booking for every 6th tackle, Chelsea and Arsenal appear to be treated more leniently by referees and receive a booking after 7th/8th tackle. This may be coincidental so I'm not jumping to any conclusions here.
• Looking at these figures as raw data it would appear that MCFC have a major issue and are not competitive enough in the tackling department, is this driven by tackling technique, player mentality or bias applied by the referees?
• We have received the 15 more yellow cards than Arsenal this season
• Our foul ration is average (we were ranked worst in Europe for this statistic last season) - see table 3; i'm not sure how we achieved neutralization of this factor but would appear we are receiving more balanced refereeing decisions on fouls overall - could this be due to MCFC being awarded more fouls due to the severity of the decisions the referees have made this season - paper over the cracks!?

Table 2: Premier League 2012/2013 – 2015/2014 Present – Ref Rank

​

Chart shows simplistic (not opponent/match specific) breakdown of referee / pts obtained over past 4 seasons.
MCFC results are ranked against Referees and the referees at the top of the chart are the referees we have had least success whilst we are playing against/ when they are officiating.
From a count of 21 matches this season; Mark Clattenberg has officiated against Manchester City 4 times.
From those games City have accrued 4 points out of a possible 12 and have been on the receiving end of 5 major decisions which I will detail in Table 4.

These major decisions looked like this and were clearly not mistakes but choices!

We lack of protection and rough treatment Aguero has received this season has been another huge cause for concern among most, the general consensus being that he gets less protection than most other strikers.
He is continually fouled from behind and is consistently on the receiving end of horror tackles like the ones from Dann and Wanyama this season.

​

Table 3: Fouls For against ratio from 2014/2015 season

​

As mentioned above this concern would now appear obsolete but is something skewing the statistics?

OK if there is something more sinister then we must investigate this; best place to start would be to review the major decisions for and against City this season. My analysis is detailed below and findings show a 9 point swing due to referee decisions which can be defined as major game changing decisions.

Table 4: Major Decision Review

​

Interesting the same names continue to appear when you review these major decisions; Mark Clattenburg, Robert Madley, Craig Pawson and Anthony Taylor

Mate this is probably one of the best posts I've ever read on this website.

What you need to do with it is email this to the Premier League, the FA, the Evening News, reputable journalists (they are out there), Sky, BT, the BBC, talkSPORT, 5Live...and most importantly the Professional Game Match Officials Board.

As good as the post is, it's serves absolutely no use at all just being stuck on some random Internet forum. This needs to be circulated and demand a proper response. If they don't provide one, complain that their response is inadequate.

If all this post ever achieves is a 50 page thread on here it will get nowhere.

There's been too much moaning from our fans and not enough action. Without action nothing will change, moaning about it will change nothing. Either stop moaning or take action.
Now someone like you has taken the time to pull something like this together, let's get something done about it!

 

[Deleted member 58678]

When we're playing well we still manage to win irrespective of the refereeing, but couple the bad decisions with our poor play for most of the season and we find ourselves where we are.

This is a good point. Like the Sterling penalty the other day. That's just one moment in the game. There are hundreds of other moments in games to make something happen and that can wipe out a bad decision. We do, absolutely, need to improve. Our league position is not because of referee decisions. We've been anything between average and awful for the best part of two seasons whether we get these poor decisions against us or not.

 

[MadchesterCity]

Great work Madchester. Interesting stats on our tackles. Definitely something there for pep to work on. Must be down to a number of factors including the high line defence we adopt. Do you have a breakdown of tackles made by each squad member. That would be interesting.

As far as the rest goes, not sure what to say. The very essence of sport is that it has to be fair. Mrs Saddleworth used to tell me that football was 'fixed'. I laughed it off. This season is the first time in my life I do believe some form of bias or corruption is at play. I get that the club wants to be dignified and professional in all its dealings but I think following Sunday, they do need to make a fuss about this if only to bring a spotlight to it and not let the media continue to airbrush these decisions out of history. 9 additional points would have put us top of the league and I don't get how people can say that we should win despite these decisions. How does that work? Handicaps are fine for horses, not for football. I genuinely feel better about losing when we are comprehensively outplayed rather than when we are cheated, because that's what this is. Clattenbergs decision was so bad it goes way beyond incompetence as does that Linesman who waved offside every time Kun touched the ball in the second half but can't spot a Spuds player 2 yards offside in the first game. Something way way wrong.

As per your request, knocked this together on my lunch hour, hope it's not too colourful, using the traffic light system for rank among our 20 outfield squad players

 

[Father Paul]

NO

Substantiate your argument please.

 

[Vincents Tackle]

I agree with this, I don't blame the ref too much for sunday even though it was a bloody crap decision. We weren't that great before hand anyway and didn't even look like scoring.

Neither did they before the penalty they were handed.

 

[blueyorkie]

I agree with this, I don't blame the ref too much for sunday even though it was a bloody crap decision. We weren't that great before hand anyway and didn't even look like scoring.

Nor did they, we created far more, the better team lost on Sunday

 

[mayo31]

The last table proves Sterling gets kicked way too much. I think the rest of the team need to protect him more. Get involved with opposing players and refs.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

As per your request, knocked this together on my lunch hour, hope it's not too colourful, using the traffic light system for rank among our 20 outfield squad players

I think we knew that Toure's figures wouldn't be good but Delphs are poor and Otamendi not great either. However unless they are compared with another side/players figures then I suppose it's hard to say what's good and what's not.

They also should then be looked at in association with passing accuracy, chances created, blocks made etc but that would be a big job I'm sure!

Some interesting stuff though.

 

[Father Paul]

We have definitely been shit but a lot of big decisions have come when the game was close. Spurs at the weekend and at their place, Leicester away and Everton at home are all results that could have yielded an extra 4/6 points had blatant refereeing mistakes not happened.

I think it is important to distinguish between poor decisions which are on-going but can be explained as a genuine mistakes and really bad decisions such as Sunday's which can call into question the motives of the person making them. This referee has been involved in both games against Spurs this season which have proved highly controversial to say the least. I for one cannot and will not accept that there is not some underlying reason which goes beyond an honest mistake why this man gave that penalty. I am not in a position to say why he acted as he did but the fact is his mistaken decision strays well beyond the realms of an honest miscalculation. I will leave it up to others to drill down in an effort to discover why he acted as he did. We must accept that referees are human and will make mistakes which may or may not cost us dearly but we MUST NEVER accept that the officials for whatever reason fail to act in an impartial manner.

 

[MadchesterCity]

The last table proves Sterling gets kicked way too much. I think the rest of the team need to protect him more. Get involved with opposing players and refs.

Yes good point, this shows the fouls that Sterling suffers more clearly

 

[DJBusinesscake]

Neither did they before the penalty they were handed.

Nor did they, we created far more, the better team lost on Sunday

Yeah fair point lads.

 

[cheddar404]

Surely tackling the issue would result in at least a yellow card.

 

[Saddleworth2]

As per your request, knocked this together on my lunch hour, hope it's not too colourful, using the traffic light system for rank among our 20 outfield squad players

Nice one madchester. We are pretty shit at tackling aren't we!! Nice to see 3 of the 4 fullbacks pretty good. Not surprised at Navas tbh he always seems to have a good defensive game. But ye gods no wonder we look porous in midfield this season. There seems to be no correlation between tackling effectiveness and age either. Look at our defensive midfielders. I am surprised at that I thought they would be better.

What the hell do you put it down to?

 

[Bozzie]

I think we were all aware that our tackling was poor but to see it highlighted like that really shows that it is a major weakness in our play. To my mind we seem to commit those petty fouls that referees love to pick up on, slight pull back as a player goes past and it's a booking every time for us. I think that's because we're isolated in midfield so often that it's usually a 'one on one' situation for us. Opposition teams always seem to have two or three players surrounding the man with the ball and they tend to crowd him out rather than hit him with a well timed challenge.