Barcon
Well-Known Member
Obviously, otherwise we'd be playing against ten men most weeks.
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Michael Oliver
- Thread starter york away to this!
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Obviously, otherwise we'd be playing against ten men most weeks.
SilverFox2
Well-Known Member
The problem is that refs have too much discretion regarding the interpretation of rules.
This allows the biased crowd to also interpret the event.
If a rule is there surely it should be observed by the players and if the rule is broken is should always be penalised by the ref. unless the rule itself allows discretion.
The need for many of the ''what constitutes a foul'' rules would disappear if the refs had no discretion because they would all be forced to observe the ''what constitutes a foul'' rule in exactly the same way and everyone would know the penalty for such an offence.
This allows the biased crowd to also interpret the event.
If a rule is there surely it should be observed by the players and if the rule is broken is should always be penalised by the ref. unless the rule itself allows discretion.
The need for many of the ''what constitutes a foul'' rules would disappear if the refs had no discretion because they would all be forced to observe the ''what constitutes a foul'' rule in exactly the same way and everyone would know the penalty for such an offence.
Got to blame Riley, we have seen a glut of penalty decisions omitted, but I've also noticed a few in other games also, this turd Riley gave some dodgy decisions throughout his officiating nothing will ever compare to his invincible beating at Trafford then Pizzagate, if ever a game needed looking into it was that, a total utter cheat that Sunday and I'm no lover of Arsenal
HelloCity
Well-Known Member
Got to blame Riley, we have seen a glut of penalty decisions omitted, but I've also noticed a few in other games also, this turd Riley gave some dodgy decisions throughout his officiating nothing will ever compare to his invincible beating at Trafford then Pizzagate, if ever a game needed looking into it was that, a total utter cheat that Sunday and I'm no lover of Arsenal
Jesus H Navas, what a disgrace.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
The refs have 100% discretion. Do they whistle for a foul or not? Do they give a foul for one player having just given an almost identical foul to an opponent? Do they count up on fingers how many fouls (which they do for some!) or do they brandish the yellow for the first offence? There is more variation in an individual refereeing a game than you find at a United Nations assembly!
The Laws of the Game were once upon a time the most beautifully crafted set of rules for any sport. They have been buggered up by decades of tinkering, international board decisions in series upon series of attempts to rectify previous buggerations, refereeing interpretations that leave tens of thousands of fans wondering what they have just seen. Was Oliver the only person in Wembley who thought the foul on Aguero inside the penalty area was not sanctioned by the award of a penalty or had he wandered into some mental state where fouls were daffodils and throw ins were pancakes? I bet every Dipper fan breathed the sigh of sighs when he fixed his weasel face against awarding the obvious.
The first thing that should have happened whilst the guy was engraving MANCHESTER CITY onto the cup was a substantial explanation from Oliver why he didn't award the obvious!
The Laws of the Game were once upon a time the most beautifully crafted set of rules for any sport. They have been buggered up by decades of tinkering, international board decisions in series upon series of attempts to rectify previous buggerations, refereeing interpretations that leave tens of thousands of fans wondering what they have just seen. Was Oliver the only person in Wembley who thought the foul on Aguero inside the penalty area was not sanctioned by the award of a penalty or had he wandered into some mental state where fouls were daffodils and throw ins were pancakes? I bet every Dipper fan breathed the sigh of sighs when he fixed his weasel face against awarding the obvious.
The first thing that should have happened whilst the guy was engraving MANCHESTER CITY onto the cup was a substantial explanation from Oliver why he didn't award the obvious!
squirtyflower
Well-Known Member
Has Frankie seen this, seems as though arsenal were moaning about nothing
SilverFox2
Well-Known Member
The refs have 100% discretion. Do they whistle for a foul or not? Do they give a foul for one player having just given an almost identical foul to an opponent? Do they count up on fingers how many fouls (which they do for some!) or do they brandish the yellow for the first offence? There is more variation in an individual refereeing a game than you find at a United Nations assembly!
The Laws of the Game were once upon a time the most beautifully crafted set of rules for any sport. They have been buggered up by decades of tinkering, international board decisions in series upon series of attempts to rectify previous buggerations, refereeing interpretations that leave tens of thousands of fans wondering what they have just seen. Was Oliver the only person in Wembley who thought the foul on Aguero inside the penalty area was not sanctioned by the award of a penalty or had he wandered into some mental state where fouls were daffodils and throw ins were pancakes? I bet every Dipper fan breathed the sigh of sighs when he fixed his weasel face against awarding the obvious.
The first thing that should have happened whilst the guy was engraving MANCHESTER CITY onto the cup was a substantial explanation from Oliver why he didn't award the obvious!
I agree. Apparently the referees seem to allow in yer face appeals by both sides after such incidents so the game has already stopped. Surely using this time to see if the referee made the correct decision (like Rugby) would be much more productive rather than discretion which is frankly allowing the rules to be applied or not by whatever rule allows a ref to have that discretion.
If the chief ref is suspect surely FIFA is also suspect for allowing their own rules to be interpreted rather than applied by the officials they appoint.
The Light Was Yellow Sir
Well-Known Member
It's really not as simple as is made out, this being a ref lark. We're complaining he didn't give a penalty but, being honest, it took 4 or 5 replays before I was convinced. Obviously, I KNEW it was a penalty watching at Wembley, but then I'll go up for anything!
Still much prefer what Oliver didn't do to what Clattenberg did. Oliver missed something, or wasn't 100% certain, whilst Clattenberg guessed that something had happened.
The beauty of football is that "it's all about opinions". 10 of us could watch a game (probably not involving City) and we would disagree on a huge amount of things that happened in that game and how the referee interpreted/handled it.
You only have to look at other forums after a game to see that they think the ref has been as incompetent/biased or bent as we do. Surely that defies logic? The dippers think he cost them the game on Sunday. Looking at this thread there is no doubt the same would have been true on here, had we missed those penalties. We can't both be right.
Still much prefer what Oliver didn't do to what Clattenberg did. Oliver missed something, or wasn't 100% certain, whilst Clattenberg guessed that something had happened.
The beauty of football is that "it's all about opinions". 10 of us could watch a game (probably not involving City) and we would disagree on a huge amount of things that happened in that game and how the referee interpreted/handled it.
You only have to look at other forums after a game to see that they think the ref has been as incompetent/biased or bent as we do. Surely that defies logic? The dippers think he cost them the game on Sunday. Looking at this thread there is no doubt the same would have been true on here, had we missed those penalties. We can't both be right.
Tugay One Cup
Well-Known Member
Seen his Mrs ref at a Darlington FC match and she better at it than him tbf.
His missus is a ref? Christ, they must be an exciting couple.
City_Sean
Well-Known Member
I'm still staggered he didn't give the penalty on Aguero. He was perfectly positioned and couldn't have been in a better place to judge, it's staggering how many non decisions are going against us. I know that we won, but it's still absolutely absurd.
Haha, you've got to laugh! Camelgob, van Pussy, Granny Shagger and Neville should all have been sent off! The irony is that when Gollum was in charge of Everton he accused Riley of being a Scum fan! The fact that Riley is now in charge of PGMOB stinks!
moenchengladbach blau
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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- 1,188
The liner would have a good view too. Standing in that corner we couldn't see how it was not awarded. Having seen it on TV for the first time (page 13) I am mystified that anyone can have any doubt let alone City fans. Those at the match booed ref and liner for ages afterwards.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
It's really not as simple as is made out, this being a ref lark. We're complaining he didn't give a penalty but, being honest, it took 4 or 5 replays before I was convinced. Obviously, I KNEW it was a penalty watching at Wembley, but then I'll go up for anything!
Still much prefer what Oliver didn't do to what Clattenberg did. Oliver missed something, or wasn't 100% certain, whilst Clattenberg guessed that something had happened.
The beauty of football is that "it's all about opinions". 10 of us could watch a game (probably not involving City) and we would disagree on a huge amount of things that happened in that game and how the referee interpreted/handled it.
You only have to look at other forums after a game to see that they think the ref has been as incompetent/biased or bent as we do. Surely that defies logic? The dippers think he cost them the game on Sunday. Looking at this thread there is no doubt the same would have been true on here, had we missed those penalties. We can't both be right.
I didn't need any. I was right in line, saw the whole thing in real time, the backwards attempt at a tackle, the leg go across Sergio and the clearest trip in the entire game. It was made even simpler because of the nature of the play at that moment. Nobody obstructing Oliver's view.
He didn't want to give anything controversial. I think, like I suspect a number of them do, that he had decided that he wasn't giving any penalties unless somebody rugby tackled, wrestled to the ground or fisted the ball from under the bar!
It is cheating. He is applying a sterner test for a penal offence inside the area than he is outside of it! Impure and simple! He didn't want ten scarlet-clad, incensed individuals in his face!
The interesting point in all this is whether the incident had happened at the other end would the outcome have been the same. As the ref on the day, he certainly, on past evidence, wouldn't have had ten sky blue-clad incensed individuals in his face!!
BluessinceHydeRoad
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- 2,562
The refusal to award a penalty was one of the most bewildering pieces of refereeing I've seen since the refusal to award a penalty for Stones' scything down of Sterling in the league match at home to Everton! A clear, cast iron penalty not given. Inexplicably not given.
The slaughtered lamb
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I didn't need any. I was right in line, saw the whole thing in real time, the backwards attempt at a tackle, the leg go across Sergio and the clearest trip in the entire game. It was made even simpler because of the nature of the play at that moment. Nobody obstructing Oliver's view.
He didn't want to give anything controversial. I think, like I suspect a number of them do, that he had decided that he wasn't giving any penalties unless somebody rugby tackled, wrestled to the ground or fisted the ball from under the bar!
It is cheating. He is applying a sterner test for a penal offence inside the area than he is outside of it! Impure and simple! He didn't want ten scarlet-clad, incensed individuals in his face!
The interesting point in all this is whether the incident had happened at the other end would the outcome have been the same. As the ref on the day, he certainly, on past evidence, wouldn't have had ten sky blue-clad incensed individuals in his face!!
Thing is, these stern almost 100%, standards of proof he has for penalties do seem to lapse when certain clubs are involved. I remember a penalty the rags got in the Palace v Utd. game he officiated last season. Afterwards, Pardew said, "The ball came in, there was no real threat and Scott [Dann] leans in and is turning away. I think it hits the shoulder and his chest. From his angle the referee couldn't tell - it was impossible. I think it is a really tough call."
I agree, it was Clattenbergesqe. Here's a video of it;
There was also one earlier this season in the Utd. v Liverpool game. A penalty was definitely the correct decision on this occasion, based on the TV replays. However, given the angle that the ball deviates from Gomez's challenge I don't see how he could give it, taking into account his position and given the high standard of proof he usually requires before giving one. 35 secs in.
Sometimes, it seems a lot easier for him is all I'm saying.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
Thing is, these stern almost 100%, standards of proof he has for penalties do seem to lapse when certain clubs are involved. I remember a penalty the rags got in the Palace v Utd. game he officiated last season. Afterwards, Pardew said, "The ball came in, there was no real threat and Scott [Dann] leans in and is turning away. I think it hits the shoulder and his chest. From his angle the referee couldn't tell - it was impossible. I think it is a really tough call."
I agree, it was Clattenbergesqe. Here's a video of it;
There was also one earlier this season in the Utd. v Liverpool game. A penalty was definitely the correct decision on this occasion, based on the TV replays. However, given the angle that the ball deviates from Gomez's challenge I don't see how he could give it, taking into account his position and given the high standard of proof he usually requires before giving one. 35 secs in.
Sometimes, it seems a lot easier for him is all I'm saying.
Yer dead right. The burden of proof seems to lie a lot heavier on certain clubs when it comes to meeting certain refs strict criteria. The same criteria seems to be no heavier than 2oz of feathers when other clubs are involved. How long did Crappenberg deliberate before he decided that Sterling played the ball with his hand or arm - ten seconds?
I've just watched the re-run of the City v Sunderland Capital One Cup on the OS. Just before half time we have a corner. Three of our players are held and wrestled, and Demichelis is clearly wrestled to the ground. Outside the area there isn't a lying, cheating whistling wanker who wouldn't give a direct free kick! We need say no more!
Mr Ed (The Stables)
Well-Known Member
Does anybody remember George Courtney giving Liverpool 3 penalties in a match, I'm normally a quiet easy to get along with type of person, that day I wanted to invade the pitch and kill him. Can't remember the year in the 1980's sometime, I think Jan Molby took at least one of them for the Dippers.
SilverFox2
Well-Known Member
It's really not as simple as is made out, this being a ref lark. We're complaining he didn't give a penalty but, being honest, it took 4 or 5 replays before I was convinced. Obviously, I KNEW it was a penalty watching at Wembley, but then I'll go up for anything!
Still much prefer what Oliver didn't do to what Clattenberg did. Oliver missed something, or wasn't 100% certain, whilst Clattenberg guessed that something had happened.
The beauty of football is that "it's all about opinions". 10 of us could watch a game (probably not involving City) and we would disagree on a huge amount of things that happened in that game and how the referee interpreted/handled it.
You only have to look at other forums after a game to see that they think the ref has been as incompetent/biased or bent as we do. Surely that defies logic? The dippers think he cost them the game on Sunday. Looking at this thread there is no doubt the same would have been true on here, had we missed those penalties. We can't both be right.
Of course it is not as simple as it is made out because the ref has too much discretion.
Video replays are available but for whatever reason they are not used by the person who makes the decision ie the ref..
There are several people who work with the ref in real time yet none of them appear to be able to give a definitive yes or no to things that matter. They can apparently be overuled or used by the ref to confirm his decision.
Rugby may be a different game but important decisions are made by examining video evidence which the ref then takes as the correct version and rules accordingly. Allowing the ref to make a guess without tools to refine his uncertainty makes him vulnerable. No wonder he makes mistakes on occasions and no wonder their personal feelings appear to influence decisions-
Hoghead
Well-Known Member
Yup, I remember that match. It was also the time I realised that we were becoming very mediocre.