John Stones

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joe Hart's Dandruff said:
Couldn't agree more with those against this move, i mean this is right up there with us apparently being interested in Wilshere. Like WTF!? I woke up in a cold sweat the other night at the thought of a Stones Mangala partnership. God, shuddered as I typed that.
Click to expand...
God job Mangala will be shipped out then.
 
Stones is a skillful footballer and a terrible defender. Just as you'll never teach Mangala to pass, you'll never teach Stones how to do the basics of defending. I don't see any point in blowing millions more on defenders who can do part of the job required, although having watched Bayern defend a few times, I suspect next year we'll be even worse
 
bluesince76 said:
Stones is a skillful footballer and a terrible defender. Just as you'll never teach Mangala to pass, you'll never teach Stones how to do the basics of defending. I don't see any point in blowing millions more on defenders who can do part of the job required, although having watched Bayern defend a few times, I suspect next year we'll be even worse
Click to expand...
So was Rio when he moved to Leeds from WHU prompting O'leary to comment 'now all I have to do is teach him how to defend'
 
pudge said:
Pretty sure TH said as much a while back.

Also, I know it may be seen as blasphemous... he's dung.
Click to expand...
can't argue with that. Our scouting team really are below par. There was a Porto fan who came on here before we bought him and explained to a tee exactly what we would be getting. How our scouts and anyone involved in the transfer couldnt see this is beyond me.
 
bluesince76 said:
Stones is a skillful footballer and a terrible defender. Just as you'll never teach Mangala to pass, you'll never teach Stones how to do the basics of defending. I don't see any point in blowing millions more on defenders who can do part of the job required, although having watched Bayern defend a few times, I suspect next year we'll be even worse
Click to expand...
Stones isnt a terrible defender by any stretch,he can improve for sure but he's certainly not the liability some of you are suggesting.
 
aguero93:20 said:
That's a pretty big assumption to start off with there, may as well ask who's backing Nacho up if we let Bony and Aguero leave and don't sign any strikers.

IF that happens though, it'll be somebody who's come through the ranks either having played in a wide or defensive position or having shown ability in both, with good reading of the game and a tough mentality, with good fitness to boot. Not a midfielder who can't defend, has looked utterly shite every time he's been put out wide (in complete contrast to Dinho on the other side who'd make a great right back), has no history of playing well, or indeed playing at all in defensive or wide positions and has a questionable fitness record. Defending isn't something you can suddenly coach into somebody in their mid 20s, nor is playing in a wide position. It's something you find you either can or can't do at a young age.

Yours,
A left back.
Click to expand...
so you are in the Angelino promotion group. Well that too is a possibility.
 
Stones may work in a back three, being covered by other full back and winger. His inner footballer would then be his key attribute. If Pep were to use this formation I think it would be Kompany who would be vulnerable.
 
The Doctor said:
So was Rio when he moved to Leeds from WHU prompting O'leary to comment 'now all I have to do is teach him how to defend'
Click to expand...

Rio took a few months to settle, but helped Leeds to a champs league semi final that difficult first season... To compare calamity Stones to him is disingenuous in the extreme....!!
 
Dax777 said:
Well I will.

I find it interesting that you blame him for a goal for giving up a bad pass, then turn around and blame him for being out of position on the other goal.

Yet Mor I was out of position on the ball he lobbed forward that got intercepted, but you didn't blame him for that. Nor did you blame the guy who lost possession prior to him being dragged out of position.

Not to mention others being out of position the whole first goal. Singling out just Stones, suggests you are doing what most people who've already made their minds up do. Had he and Mori switched places you'd have faultec him for the goal for being easily nutmeged.

Against United, I think it is silly that folks blame him for the Felliani goal. Too many just watch the last guy around the goalscorer and conclude he must be at fault.

Again, that was just poor team defending. Baines or whoever the LB was, originally had Felliani. Never passed him off or stayed with him. Felliani made a good play, he checked to the top of the Six box. At the last instant before the cross Jageilka takes a step towards the byline and away from Felliani's Line for a pass and Felliani. Stones looks over Jageilka' shoulder to see the play, pass is given in that instant. He jumps for a block but fails to get there. It is beyond silly to suggest he is to blame.

And I am not calling you specifically silly, it's the simplistic view of what good or bad defending is that is silly. Even the Telly people do it and I roll my eyes.. Oh Stones should have stayed close to his man there. Really? I can play you 100 video shots from this season alone of similar circumstances like that, and every time all the defenders stay deep. It's natural football instinct, you wanna be as deep as the balls line and no deeper. So long as Feliani keeps moving away from defenders, they are not going to follow him. No defender does. Not Kompany, not Hummels, not Boateng, not Pique or any other defender you can think of.

The key is pressure on the initial ball. United leisurely moved around on Everton's right flank, the guy beat his man with ease, had time to look up and find feet in the box, and all people see is the last ditch effort defender's error?

If there is pressure on the ball paaer, the best he can do is swing the ball into the box and hope, that he didn't have to do that, tells you where the real error lies. But it's not just the defender who was easily beaten, it is his midfield help who was also soft on support. Once United watlz to the byline the goal was already in. Everyone else was just trying.

The 2nd goal is give more credence too. Sure he let the French kid in easily, but really, back the tape up half a second, and watch the midfielder who had Martial originally, lazily not track him once Martial passed the ball off to the guy Stones was originally marking. Stones then rightly drops off, and should have been doubling Martial with the lazy midfielder who just dropped him off.

He, Stones, did hesitate for a second as he Thought they had possession when the United player bubbled it and it fell in front of an Everton player, but the United guy was quicker to react and poked it into Martial's path. Leaving Stones a bit flat footed. Is that an error? Perhaps. But again, I see more bad team defending than bad individual defending from Stones.

This will not be his reality on a better organized team. Will he have errors? Absolutely. Will we be better with him? I think so.
Click to expand...


Sorry Dax, been away with work so only just catching up....

Giving the ball away dangerously and being out of position constantly are 2 terrible traits for a defender, not sure why it's bizarre to think that way... And I do blame him for that goal, not sure if it came across wrong.

Not commenting on other players as we're not reported to be buying them for close to 50 mil. I'm not saying they've covered themselves in glory, but as Stones is apparently going to be our next centre half, it's understandable I'm focussing on him, no??

For the Fellani goal, similar to sakho one against Liverpool, can you imagine Vinny, Vidic or Adams leaving the biggest threat in so much space on the 6 yard line. No, neither can I..... Martial he was day dreaming for me, a major concern in a cup semi final with a minute left... Surely he should of been on it then, if he ever is going to be. That's 2 semis he cost Everton this season, he wasn't much better against us!!

Your points about pressure on the ball are valid, but at times space is created and then you have to rely on the other defenders to defend properly. And this is my biggest issue with Stones. Goal after goal he's just caught out. Of course he's not going to stop every one, but the volume of these goals is scary for someone who were gonna pay silly money for. For me anyway....
 
Last edited:
Bluearmy said:
Sorry Dax, been away with work so only just catching up....

Giving the ball away dangerously and being out of position constantly are 2 terrible traits for a defender, not sure why it's bizarre to think that way... And I do blame him for that goal, not sure if it came across wrong.

Not commenting on other players as we're not reported to be buying them for close to 50 mil. I'm not saying they've covered themselves in glory, but as Stones is apparently going to be our next centre half, it's understandable I'm focussing on him, no??

For the Fellani goal, similar to sakho can you imagine Vinny, Vidic or Adams leaving the biggest threat in so much space on the 6 yard line. No, neither can I..... Martial he was day dreaming for me, a major concern in a cup semi final with a minute left... Surely he should of been on it then, if he ever is going to be. That's 2 semis he cost Everton this season, he wasn't much better against us!!

Your points about pressure on the ball are valid, but at times space is created and then you have to rely on the other defenders to defend properly. And this is my biggest issue with Stones. Goal after goal he's just caught out. Of course he's not going to stop every one, but the volume of these goals is scary for someone who were gonna pay silly money for. For me anyway....
Click to expand...
He reminds me a lot of sideshow bob moments of brilliance followed by massive lapses in concentration. Could this be ironed out of him by Pep? Not sure. Personally I think at 50m it would be a big gamble.
 
Father Paul said:
He reminds me a lot of sideshow bob moments of brilliance followed by massive lapses in concentration. Could this be ironed out of him by Pep? Not sure. Personally I think at 50m it would be a big gamble.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Luiz mark 2. Would you have him as our new centre half? I know I wouldn't. That's all it is, a gamble.. For 10 mil maybe, worth a punt. Young English and would get most of your money back 18 months down the line. For 50 mil it's madness
 
STEFAN SAVIC, yes him....looks decent now doesn't he under Simeone at Atleti playing as a centre back and shut out Bayern.
Does any one know how he is perceived by Atleti fans? has he improved.....

Reason being, if he has turned out to be good, the worry then is we are always too quick to dispose of defenders. Boateng being the prime example (ok granted he pushed a bit himself, because he wanted to play as a CB and Mancini was only willing to play him at RB).

I am very much encouraged by Mangala's recent performances. The hope is Pep does with him what he did with Boateng, turn him into a MONSTER the man has the physique, stamina, speed, power. Just needs to be fine tuned.

So while i am open to Stones, or Laporte, would not like to see both of them here. As we have Denayer in the mix next year aswell...but for him I guess we can bring him at RB where he has been playing for GALATASARAY, and have him as back to SAGNA.

Thoughts team?

Cheers.
 
Bluearmy said:
Exactly, Luiz mark 2. Would you have him as our new centre half? I know I wouldn't. That's all it is, a gamble.. For 10 mil maybe, worth a punt. Young English and would get most of your money back 18 months down the line. For 50 mil it's madness
Click to expand...

All Depends on who the manager is. Under Pellers...no way. Under Bobby....no way. Under Pep, maybe.
 
City14 said:
I am very much encouraged by Mangala's recent performances. The hope is Pep does with him what he did with Boateng, turn him into a MONSTER the man has the physique, stamina, speed, power. Just needs to be fine tuned.
Click to expand...


I've heard Boateng calls Pep Daddy, says the man taught him everything he knew.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top