Well done boss

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Neville Kneville said:
I know. The wool has been well & truly pulled over the eyes.

If it was a proper 4231 the two wide players would be more narrow closer to DeBruyne rather than in front of the fullbacks.

He was possibly more varied in Spain than he is here, & that's not saying much.
Click to expand...

I know, the way Silva and Nasri hug that touch line is leaving huge gaps in the middle....
 
Dribble said:
Tbh, you've responded with nothing other than to repeat yourself again........ and again.

1. We get it, our squad is not fit for purpose and all the players were bought with Pep in mind and for 433.
2. Manuel was just in a caretaker role for 3 years and had little influence on the squad, team, formation and tactics.
3. Txiki gave the directive of we will be playing attacking football and this is against Pellegrini's wishes as he wanted a different style of football.
4. All this will change with the next manager though because as Txiki's mate, he'll be allowed to do as he pleases without influence from Txiki.
5. Txiki's mate will choose his own players to buy, a luxury not afforded to Manuel.
6. Because we will probably be active in the transfer market, this proves our squad is not fit for purpose albeit we've been active in every summer transfer window that I can remember, vis a vis our squad has then never been fit for purpose and judging by your logic never will be and this again is all Txiki's fault.
7. Tu Pac, Sheargar and Elvis are all alive and kicking and living in Atlantis where Lord Lucan is a tour guide.

I think this about covers your take on things, have I left anything out? Let's not go round and round in circles, just amend the above as applicable so we have an accurate assessment of how things stand on planet @schfc6.
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No, you're right. The director of football has no influence on first team goings on..
No manager ever, has complained about those above him interfering.
You're right, it's almost the same as insisting Elvis is alive to suggest a director of football has an influence on first team affairs.

Pellegrini was always first choice and we've never really been interested in Guardiola. It was a stunning surprise to World football when he was announced.

I'm sure the other Champions League semi finalists will be banging down our door when Caballero, Zabaleta(now), Kolarov, Deplh, Fernando, YAYA(now), Bony & Demichellis are made surplus to requirement.

Pellegrini sold all his strikers becuase just 2 senior strikers is perfect for his preferred 442.

The hollisuc approach, the promise of attacking football by the powers that be have no influence on the first team coach.
 
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schfc6 said:
No, you're right. The director of football has no influence on first team goings on..
No manager ever, has complained about those above him interfering.
You're right, it's almost the same as insisting Elvis is alive to suggest a director of football has an influence on first team affairs.

Pellegrini was always first choice and we've never really been interested in Guardiola. It was a stunning surprise to World football when he was announced.

Pellegrini sold all his strikers becuase just 2 senior strikers is perfect for his preferred 442.

The hollisuc approach, the promise of attacking football by the powers that be have no influence on the first team coach.
Click to expand...

You lay out all these arguments as if they are part of a reasoned discussion. But think about what you are posting.

You argue that Pellegrini doesn't play 442 then criticise Txiki for not giving him the players to play it. Do we play it or not ? If not what the fuck are you going on about ?

You defend Pellegrini as a manager then criticise Txiki for telling him to play attacking football.

You don't want attacking football or you prefer it ? Which ? Or are you trying to say that the formation & tactics used by the first team are Txiki's idea ? Even though every other team at the club plays a different way ?

Can you not form one opinion & stick to it rather than flitting between bits & pieces ?

You tell us he's forced Pellegrini to be 'hollistic' then accuse Txiki, not Pellegrini, of sending away Denayer & forcing Pellegrini to have 4 senior cbs. Which is it ? It can't be both.

You do realise that by 'holistic' they mean the 'whole' of the club ie including the academy & bringing through the young players right ? So Txiki is forcing Pellegrini to pick young players ? Really ? But at the same time he is loaning out Denayer, the young player who was closest to the first team ?

You are picking both sides of each argument as your own in a bizarre witch hunt against the d.o.f. & I recon that's your agenda. You aren't really arsed about Pellegrini at all imo, it could be any other manager & you'd be saying the same. Txiki has upset you probably by sacking Mancini, & all this is a grudge.
 
Neville Kneville said:
You lay out all these arguments as if they are part of a reasoned discussion. But think about what you are posting.

You argue that Pellegrini doesn't play 442 then criticise Txiki for not giving him the players to play it. Do we play it or not ? If not what the fuck are you going on about ?

You defend Pellegrini as a manager then criticise Txiki for telling him to play attacking football.

You don't want attacking football or you prefer it ? Which ? Or are you trying to say that the formation & tactics used by the first team are Txiki's idea ? Even though every other team at the club plays a different way ?

Can you not form one opinion & stick to it rather than flitting between bits & pieces ?

You tell us he's forced Pellegrini to be 'hollistic' then accuse Txiki, not Pellegrini, of sending away Denayer & forcing Pellegrini to have 4 senior cbs. Which is it ? It can't be both.

You do realise that by 'holistic' they mean the 'whole' of the club ie including the academy & bringing through the young players right ? So Txiki is forcing Pellegrini to pick young players ? Really ? But at the same time he is loaning out Denayer, the young player who was closest to the first team ?

You are picking both sides of each argument as your own in a bizarre witch hunt against the d.o.f. & I recon that's your agenda. You aren't really arsed about Pellegrini at all imo, it could be any other manager & you'd be saying the same. Txiki has upset you probably by sacking Mancini, & all this is a grudge.
Click to expand...
Word to the mother..........
 
Neville Kneville said:
You lay out all these arguments as if they are part of a reasoned discussion. But think about what you are posting.

You argue that Pellegrini doesn't play 442 then criticise Txiki for not giving him the players to play it. Do we play it or not ? If not what the fuck are you going on about ?

You defend Pellegrini as a manager then criticise Txiki for telling him to play attacking football.

You don't want attacking football or you prefer it ? Which ? Or are you trying to say that the formation & tactics used by the first team are Txiki's idea ? Even though every other team at the club plays a different way ?

Can you not form one opinion & stick to it rather than flitting between bits & pieces ?

You tell us he's forced Pellegrini to be 'hollistic' then accuse Txiki, not Pellegrini, of sending away Denayer & forcing Pellegrini to have 4 senior cbs. Which is it ? It can't be both.

You do realise that by 'holistic' they mean the 'whole' of the club ie including the academy & bringing through the young players right ? So Txiki is forcing Pellegrini to pick young players ? Really ? But at the same time he is loaning out Denayer, the young player who was closest to the first team ?

You are picking both sides of each argument as your own in a bizarre witch hunt against the d.o.f. & I recon that's your agenda. You aren't really arsed about Pellegrini at all imo, it could be any other manager & you'd be saying the same. Txiki has upset you probably by sacking Mancini, & all this is a grudge.
Click to expand...
Amen
 
Neville Kneville said:
You lay out all these arguments as if they are part of a reasoned discussion. But think about what you are posting.

You argue that Pellegrini doesn't play 442 then criticise Txiki for not giving him the players to play it. Do we play it or not ? If not what the fuck are you going on about ?

You defend Pellegrini as a manager then criticise Txiki for telling him to play attacking football.

You don't want attacking football or you prefer it ? Which ? Or are you trying to say that the formation & tactics used by the first team are Txiki's idea ? Even though every other team at the club plays a different way ?

Can you not form one opinion & stick to it rather than flitting between bits & pieces ?

You tell us he's forced Pellegrini to be 'hollistic' then accuse Txiki, not Pellegrini, of sending away Denayer & forcing Pellegrini to have 4 senior cbs. Which is it ? It can't be both.

You do realise that by 'holistic' they mean the 'whole' of the club ie including the academy & bringing through the young players right ? So Txiki is forcing Pellegrini to pick young players ? Really ? But at the same time he is loaning out Denayer, the young player who was closest to the first team ?

You are picking both sides of each argument as your own in a bizarre witch hunt against the d.o.f. & I recon that's your agenda. You aren't really arsed about Pellegrini at all imo, it could be any other manager & you'd be saying the same. Txiki has upset you probably by sacking Mancini, & all this is a grudge.
Click to expand...


Yes, I'm offering both sides of the arguement. It so very basic.

I'm offering your own arguement against you.

Both you and dribble believe he plays a derivative of 442. Yet you don't believe Txiki is buying the players.
My arguement, if Pellegrini is indeed playing 442 as YOU say then why are we or is he not buying players to suit his desired formation?
If Pellegrini likes 442 as YOU say, why aren't we signing players to suit?

It's a very basic point that proves there's obviously a conflict between the two by your own reckoning.

I think and have always thought Pellegrini is trying his best to accommodate the players he's been given. He's not really playing a system he likes, he's playing one to suit the players he's been given.

It's a painfully basic arguement. I think Pellegrini wants to play one way and the club are aiming for another way. The 4222 or 4231 or however you see it is an unbalanced compromise.

It's my opinion, I have given arguement to back it up. I won't change it because two people on the Internet say I'm wrong with absolutely no counter arguement.

I have a very basic arguement using your point against you. You say Pellegrini wants to play 442. Regardless of my opinion, if he does want to play 442. Why aren't we signing the players to suit? You know the answer, it just deflates your point, would mean saying you're wrong.

I have highlighted De Bruyne's touch map as it goes to discredit you. He isn't playing as a striker. Thus it's not a 442. Or a 4222. I personally believe Pellegrini attempts a basic 4231. That isn't balanced due to squad. I have always maintained this. It lines up more like this.
GK
RB.Cb.CB.LB
....DM.....
....CM.....
RW.IF...Nobody.
.....10........,
.....ST.........

My arguement is an remains. Fernando, Toure and Delph don't suit a 2 in a 4231 or a 442/4222. Toure doesn't suit a 433 with Fernando neither one have the legs to cover the full back. Toure could play the holding role if we had two Fernandinho's. We haven't.

I don't think Silva, De Bruyne, Navas or Nasri suit a 433. Navas is too one footed, one dimensianal and direct. Nasri and Silva are effective as inside forwards but would need good overlapping full backs. Like Zabaleta used to be. Like Silva would have for Spain. We haven't.
I don't think you buy a £54 million central traditional no ten to instantly change his position.
What I've seen of De Bruyne Pellegrini is using him as he should.

I think Aguero would be isolated in a 433 much like he is when De Bruyne isn't near him. I think if De Bruyne were to play in front a 3 of a 433 it would put far too much pressure on the 3 midfielders for reasons stated above. Limited midfield cover from Toure or Fernando and limited quality overlapping from Clichy or Sagna.

After this summer and the arrival of Pep I think we will have fullbacks suited to a 433. I wouldn't be surprised to see him experiment with Navas or Delph as full backs at some point. I think we'll add players suitable and capable of playing in a midfield two or a three.

Wednesday night saw Pep try a variation of three systems. A 4231/433 depending on where you think Thaigo played with traditional wingers and a traditional number 9. He then tried a traditional 442 with two strikers, traditional wide men and two centre mids. I personally think he exposed Alonso but I could see what he was trying.
I think he will use these same three basic floor plans at City.

But Bayern have 4 world class wingers, all four can hug the touch line or can be inverted wingers cutting in or can play as inside forwards.
Costa, Robben, Ribery & Coman offer far more options and flexibility than Navas, Sterling, Nasri and Silva.
I think De Bruyne and Muller are as flexible as each other but with different qualities.

Do I even need to rationalise the difference between Fernando, Delph, Ya Ya and Fernandinho with Thiago, Alonso, Martinez, Alaba, Gotze, Rode, Vidal, Lahm and Kimmich? Their options for central midfield highlight just how inflexible our squad is.

Guardiola has flexiblity becuase either he or his director of football or similar title in Germany facilitate that.

I believe between Txiki and Pellegrini have made a bit of a pigs ear of our squad.

It's not a witch hunt against Txiki, I'm offering my opinion and comparing his job to our supposed rivals. His job is to build a side capable of competing with the very best. Navas, Fernando, Sagna and Clichy absolutely must start in Madrid. Would any of them even make the bench for Real? Bayern? Atleti?

You're so hung up on your pathetic name calling of Pellegrini that you think others are as petty as childish as stupid. Thinking differently to you, having my own opinions, believing someone can do better, offering reasons where and why I believe he has under achieved is not a which hunt. Appearing on nearly every thread from EDS to Sterling's spouting your anti Pellegrini and childish name calling could however be considered a witch hunt.

I think Pellegrini and Txiki have a lot to answer for over the last 3 years. I don't blame one person and I don't use childish and moronic insults.

If you think it's all Pellegrini's fault then fine. Personally I think this squad being a draw away from the CL final is a pretty decent effort, but you're entitled to your opinion.

If you think that Txiki has built a squad to rival the European elite, in my opinion you'd be wrong.



Messi, Suarez & Naymar.
Bale, Ronaldo, Benzema
Robben, Lewandoeski, Muller
Navas Aguero De Bruyne.

Rakatic, Busquets, Inesta
Isco, Kroos, Modric
Vidal Alonso Thiago
Fernando, Fernandinho, Toure.


I repeat, I don't blame Txiki or Pellegrini, I think they both carry responsibility for a variety of reasons.

For the record, I was a Mancini fan. It was time for him to go.
 
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schfc6 said:
No, you're right. The director of football has no influence on first team goings on..
No manager ever, has complained about those above him interfering.
You're right, it's almost the same as insisting Elvis is alive to suggest a director of football has an influence on first team affairs.

Pellegrini was always first choice and we've never really been interested in Guardiola. It was a stunning surprise to World football when he was announced.

I'm sure the other Champions League semi finalists will be banging down our door when Caballero, Zabaleta(now), Kolarov, Deplh, Fernando, YAYA(now), Bony & Demichellis are made surplus to requirement.

Pellegrini sold all his strikers becuase just 2 senior strikers is perfect for his preferred 442.

The hollisuc approach, the promise of attacking football by the powers that be have no influence on the first team coach.
Click to expand...
The DoF sets out the clubs agreed playing philosophy and managers are contracted to execute this. The reason for this is so that a change of manager doesn't mean a monumental shift in playing staff and styles and it is the rule rather than the exception in Spanish football. Mancini who had this put to him after Txiki arrived at the club had already been in the job 2 1/2 years and had won two trophies in 2 years was understandably pissed when he was told the essential team sculpting part of his job was now going to be done by someone else. Mancini even used Ferguson and Wenger as examples of Championship winning managers who basically combined the DoF role with that of being head coach and manager which is what he wanted to continue with albeit he accepted working as part of a transfer and acquisition committee.

Pellegrini walked into the MCFC job with his eyes wide open and was told our club's ethos was a holistic 433 from the Juniors through to the first team, but he and he alone came with his 442-424-4222 or whatever you want to call it and still you claim this is on Txiki's orders. A club's ethos is something an incoming manager can either accept of decline and by the look of it Pellegrini has accepted this and worked within that structure but has done it his way as proved by his formations, tactics etc. The only person who can't seem to accept this is you. Show me where Pellegrini has bellyached once about undue influence from Txiki effecting his team selection and tactics?

By you logic if a team seeks to improve its playing staff and upgrade older players for younger players, this shows that the squad is not fit for purpose. Sorry but that is just you and your hackneyed view of football. The replenishment of a playing squad is about natural progression because player like Yaya, Zabs, Sagna Hart, Silva, Nasri do age unlike the Peter Pan world you must inhabit.

It's feeding time for Sheargar, so I'll leave this with you fella.
 
Dribble said:
Word to the mother..........
Click to expand...

It's actually a terrible arguement. Well not arguement. A list of baseless statements with no argument attached.

It's very simple.

Do or does our manager like to play 442/4222 in your opinion? If the answer is yes, then why aren't we signing the players to suit?
If no, what formation do you think he prefers?

If employing a manager whilst already in talks with his replacement is a standard procedure, it should be easy to give examples of it happening in the past. Can you offer one?

I believe there is a clear directive from the top of how we are expected to play. I believe there's a possibility that the director of football may be influencing the manager. I have given examples of this happening before. Our very own manager has said it's happened to him in the past. It's widely reported that issues between the director of football and managers has caused issues at Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs. So why is it such a stretch to believe it's happening here?
Do you have any counter arguement to that? Or just a simple 'it doesn't'?

Yes, I believe that Pep will have a greater influence on signings. I believe he is the man they see will shape the future of the club. I think it's fairly common place to try and build something with people you've worked with and trust. I believe Pep is the man Txiki sees important in our growth. I believe we have seen Pep as somewhat of the final piece.
If you don't then fine, offer something to back that up.

You may all disagree with me. But no of you have even offered a counter arguement.
I offered my opinion and reasons why.

All you and Neville have done is offer a list of statements with no factual basis.

Txiki doesn't influence first team affairs because he doesn't. Brilliant.
 
Pablo1 said:
Jesus, it's going to be fun next season when he's finally here.
It'll be you, Eccles, kazzydeyna and Winkyman as the new hipster cabal. Can't wait.
Click to expand...

I'm going to be right behind the poncey bald **** mate I'm not petty.
 
Dribble said:
The DoF sets out the clubs agreed playing philosophy and managers are contracted to execute this. The reason for this is so that a change of manager doesn't mean a monumental shift in playing staff and styles and it is the rule rather than the exception in Spanish football. Mancini who had this put to him after Txiki arrived at the club had already been in the job 2 1/2 years and had won two trophies in 2 years was understandably pissed when he was told the essential team sculpting part of his job was now going to be done by someone else. Mancini even used Ferguson and Wenger as examples of Championship winning managers who basically combined the DoF role with that of being head coach and manager which is what he wanted to continue with albeit he accepted working as part of a transfer and acquisition committee.

Pellegrini walked into the MCFC job with his eyes wide open and was told our club's ethos was a holistic 433 from the Juniors through to the first team, but he and he alone came with his 442-424-4222 or whatever you want to call it and still you claim this is on Txiki's orders. A club's ethos is something an incoming manager can either accept of decline and by the look of it Pellegrini has accepted this and worked within that structure but has done it his way as proved by his formations, tactics etc. The only person who can't seem to accept this is you. Show me where Pellegrini has bellyached once about undue influence from Txiki effecting his team selection and tactics?

By you logic if a team seeks to improve its playing staff and upgrade older players for younger players, this shows that the squad is not fit for purpose. Sorry but that is just you and your hackneyed view of football. The replenishment of a playing squad is about natural progression because player like Yaya, Zabs, Sagna Hart, Silva, Nasri do age unlike the Peter Pan world you must inhabit.

It's feeding time for Sheargar, so I'll leave this with you fella.
Click to expand...


You are totally misunderstanding me. I fully agree with the first paragraph. I've wrote similar elsewhere and spent hours in the pub explaining to some oldies the pros of our new system. I am fully on board with it. I understand why Mancini was pissed off, but I personally prefer our system.
Where you are misunderstanding or refusing to except my arguement. Pellegrini is in a unique situation as he is the first employed to help implement this new system. He's a transisitional manager. Helping build from the start. I know he's walked into this with his eyes open. He had to put Mancini's fires out whilst building for a new manager. For me you can't switch from the Ferguson to the Txiki system over night. Pellegrini is effectively laying the ground work.
You can get hung up on systems if you like. To me it's obvious we are switching from Mancini's deep line rigid 442 to a more fluid system. Guardiola will complete this transition.

With regars your second paragraph, I'm not disagreeing. But you are offering Pellegrini as just part of the cycle. The three year plan. He isn't. He's the first. That's for me why he can't be judged for his on field alone. I'm saying he's working towards a greater goal, towards the new plan. He could have come here, won three league but not taken us forwards. It could have been Pep building for the future. Pellegrini for me is a trusted hand to help build for Pep. Does that mean he has to play 433? No. But his job now means with a few key signings Pep can get straight to work.
To put it in football terms, we've basically employed Pellegrini to be Guardiola's water carrier.
I think this is or wa the right thing to do. I also think it's hard to judge Pellegrini because I'm sure he'd have done things differently had it been a different situation. Much like he's shown in the CL.

By my logic, we need more centre midfielders. By anyone's logic we need more centre midfielders. I'd like to see Pellegrini given this squad but with Gundogan, Pogba or whomever we sign. He won't get that chance. Rightly so as Pep is much the better coach.

To go from Mancini and Marwood to Pep and Txiki needed Pellegrini. For me, he's done a very good job. I don't think his time here is all about success.
He's been the very definition of a transitional manager as your first paragraph states.

As I say, he could have done a better job. So could Txiki.
 
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schfc6 said:
Yes, I'm offering both sides of the arguement. It so very basic.

I'm offering your own arguement against you.

Both you and dribble believe he plays a derivative of 442. Yet you don't believe Txiki is buying the players.
My arguement, if Pellegrini is indeed playing 442 as YOU say then why are we or is he not buying players to suit his desired formation?
If Pellegrini likes 442 as YOU say, why aren't we signing players to suit?

It's a very basic point that proves there's obviously a conflict between the two by your own reckoning.

I think and have always thought Pellegrini is trying his best to accommodate the players he's been given. He's not really playing a system he likes, he's playing one to suit the players he's been given.

It's a painfully basic arguement. I think Pellegrini wants to play one way and the club are aiming for another way. The 4222 or 4231 or however you see it is an unbalanced compromise.

It's my opinion, I have given arguement to back it up. I won't change it because two people on the Internet say I'm wrong with absolutely no counter arguement.

I have a very basic arguement using your point against you. You say Pellegrini wants to play 442. Regardless of my opinion, if he does want to play 442. Why aren't we signing the players to suit? You know the answer, it just deflates your point, would mean saying you're wrong.

I have highlighted De Bruyne's touch map as it goes to discredit you. He isn't playing as a striker. Thus it's not a 442. Or a 4222. I personally believe Pellegrini attempts a basic 4231. That isn't balanced due to squad. I have always maintained this. It lines up more like this.
GK
RB.Cb.CB.LB
....DM.....
....CM.....
RW.IF...Nobody.
.....10........,
.....ST.........

My arguement is an remains. Fernando, Toure and Delph don't suit a 2 in a 4231 or a 442/4222. Toure doesn't suit a 433 with Fernando neither one have the legs to cover the full back. Toure could play the holding role if we had two Fernandinho's. We haven't.

I don't think Silva, De Bruyne, Navas or Nasri suit a 433. Navas is too one footed, one dimensianal and direct. Nasri and Silva are effective as inside forwards but would need good overlapping full backs. Like Zabaleta used to be. Like Silva would have for Spain. We haven't.
I don't think you buy a £54 million central traditional no ten to instantly change his position.
What I've seen of De Bruyne Pellegrini is using him as he should.

I think Aguero would be isolated in a 433 much like he is when De Bruyne isn't near him. I think if De Bruyne were to play in front a 3 of a 433 it would put far too much pressure on the 3 midfielders for reasons stated above. Limited midfield cover from Toure or Fernando and limited quality overlapping from Clichy or Sagna.

After this summer and the arrival of Pep I think we will have fullbacks suited to a 433. I wouldn't be surprised to see him experiment with Navas or Delph as full backs at some point. I think we'll add players suitable and capable of playing in a midfield two or a three.

Wednesday night saw Pep try a variation of three systems. A 4231/433 depending on where you think Thaigo played with traditional wingers and a traditional number 9. He then tried a traditional 442 with two strikers, traditional wide men and two centre mids. I personally think he exposed Alonso but I could see what he was trying.
I think he will use these same three basic floor plans at City.

But Bayern have 4 world class wingers, all four can hug the touch line or can be inverted wingers cutting in or can play as inside forwards.
Costa, Robben, Ribery & Coman offer far more options and flexibility than Navas, Sterling, Nasri and Silva.
I think De Bruyne and Muller are as flexible as each other but with different qualities.

Do I even need to rationalise the difference between Fernando, Delph, Ya Ya and Fernandinho with Thiago, Alonso, Martinez, Alaba, Gotze, Rode, Vidal, Lahm and Kimmich? Their options for central midfield highlight just how inflexible our squad is.

Guardiola has flexiblity becuase either he or his director of football or similar title in Germany facilitate that.

I believe between Txiki and Pellegrini have made a bit of a pigs ear of our squad.

It's not a witch hunt against Txiki, I'm offering my opinion and comparing his job to our supposed rivals. His job is to build a side capable of competing with the very best. Navas, Fernando, Sagna and Clichy absolutely must start in Madrid. Would any of them even make the bench for Real? Bayern? Atleti?

You're so hung up on your pathetic name calling of Pellegrini that you think others are as petty as childish as stupid. Thinking differently to you, having my own opinions, believing someone can do better, offering reasons where and why I believe he has under achieved is not a which hunt. Appearing on nearly every thread from EDS to Sterling's spouting your anti Pellegrini and childish name calling could however be considered a witch hunt.

I think Pellegrini and Txiki have a lot to answer for over the last 3 years. I don't blame one person and I don't use childish and moronic insults.

If you think it's all Pellegrini's fault then fine. Personally I think this squad being a draw away from the CL final is a pretty decent effort, but you're entitled to your opinion.

If you think that Txiki has built a squad to rival the European elite, in my opinion you'd be wrong.



Messi, Suarez & Naymar.
Bale, Ronaldo, Benzema
Robben, Lewandoeski, Muller
Navas Aguero De Bruyne.

Rakatic, Busquets, Inesta
Isco, Kroos, Modric
Vidal Alonso Thiago
Fernando, Fernandinho, Toure.


I repeat, I don't blame Txiki or Pellegrini, I think they both carry responsibility for a variety of reasons.

For the record, I was a Mancini fan. It was time for him to go.
Click to expand...

What is this constant crap about DeBruyne & his heat map ? It's weird. Again you are trying to prove to me, something I completely agree with. I KNOW DeBruyne moves about. So do Silva or Nasri when they play that postion. I don't NEED the heatmap I can see them doing it! As you will see them line up next to Aguero when we lose the ball, in a 2, if you put on any recording of any City game. I don't care if it isn't obvious from a heat map. WATCH THE GAME.

Your own list above shows DeBruyne IN FRONT OF the other mids. Not as one of a 3, but IN FRONT of the other two! THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE I AM SAYING HE PLAYS but of course he doesn't just stay there he moves around. But he gies back to that position when we are in formation. So do Silva Nasri when they play there, so did Jovetic. You can see this watching the game, it's obvious. Why are you going on about this as if I am saying something else?

Now centre mids Fernando & Fernandinho were winning the battle vs Real Madrid in spite of being in a 2. Imagine a balanced team with tactical adaptation rather than DeBruyne on the wing & a forward in his position ? Sure we don't have an extra star in midfield, yet.

It was pretty obvious to everyone in the summer who the other star midfielder was: Pogba. Yes we had to put up with just DeBruyne & Sterling as big signings because we didn't get Pogba. We could have done a Mancini & spent another 50 mil on shite squad players instead, but rightly, we kept that down to a minimum & will have another go at some top players in the summer. In the meantime the manager has to manage.

So we have Fernandinho, Fernando, Delph, Yaya who play there regularly (except the manager only uses Delph on the wing) then we have Zabaleta, Kompany who have played there with some success in the past, then we have lightweight Thiago/Iniesta kind of players like Silva & Nasri who could play there in a different system, but not in a two, particularly not in the Prem, both Garcias, Kean Bryan, George Evans, probably Denayer who also could play there & help keep everyone fit & shsrp.

Try Thiago & Alonso in a two with Silva & Navas out wide (I notice Navas gets in your list of comparisons as a front 3 but not Silva Sterling or Nasri) and see how they get on v Liverpool's 5. They woudn't even get a kick. They would need to play as part of a system which suited them. So do our players. Give Pep this exact same group & he would try a whole bunch of players & systems & players in different positions (such as Lahm, the fullback who you are comparing in a midfield role) in order to find answers to different problems.

(I notice PSG's & Dortmund's midfield players have disappeared from your list of superior players nowardays btw)

Since Pellegrini has arrived at City we have played basically the same system with the only variety down to the type of player at No 10.

Ironically, last season due to injuries, he was forced to change it & we pkayed more similar to the way Klopp played v us. I think we equalled the club record for wins round about that time. Then he changed back.
 
schfc6 said:
You are totally misunderstanding me. I fully agree with the first paragraph. I've wrote similar elsewhere and spent hours in the pub explaining to some oldies the pros of our new system. I am fully on board with it. I understand why Mancini was pissed off, but I personally prefer our system.
Where you are misunderstanding or refusing to except my arguement. Pellegrini is in a unique situation as he is the first employed to help implement this new system. He's a transisitional manager. Helping build from the start. I know he's walked into this with his eyes open. He had to put Mancini's fires out whilst building for a new manager. For me you can't switch from the Ferguson to the Txiki system over night. Pellegrini is effectively laying the ground work.
You can get hung up on systems if you like. To me it's obvious we are switching from Mancini's deep line rigid 442 to a more fluid system. Guardiola will complete this transition.

With regars your second paragraph, I'm not disagreeing. But you are offering Pellegrini as just part of the cycle. The three year plan. He isn't. He's the first. That's for me why he can't be judged for his on field alone. I'm saying he's working towards a greater goal, towards the new plan. He could have come here, won three league but not taken us forwards. It could have been Pep building for the future. Pellegrini for me is a trusted hand to help build for Pep. Does that mean he has to play 433? No. But his job now means with a few key signings Pep can get straight to work.
To put it in football terms, we've basically employed Pellegrini to be Guardiola's water carrier.
I think this is or wa the right thing to do. I also think it's hard to judge Pellegrini because I'm sure he'd have done things differently had it been a different situation. Much like he's shown in the CL.

By my logic, we need more centre midfielders. By anyone's logic we need more centre midfielders. I'd like to see Pellegrini given this squad but with Gundogan, Pogba or whomever we sign. He won't get that chance. Rightly so as Pep is much the better coach.

To go from Mancini and Marwood to Pep and Txiki needed Pellegrini. For me, he's done a very good job. I don't think his time here is all about success.
He's been the very definition of a transitional manager as your first paragraph states.

As I say, he could have done a better job. So could Txiki.
Click to expand...
How are the oldies holding up?
 
Neville Kneville said:
What is this constant crap about DeBruyne & his heat map ? It's weird. Again you are trying to prove to me, something I completely agree with. I KNOW DeBruyne moves about. So do Silva or Nasri when they play that postion. I don't NEED the heatmap I can see them doing it! As you will see them line up next to Aguero when we lose the ball, in a 2, if you put on any recording of any City game. I don't care if it isn't obvious from a heat map. WATCH THE GAME.

Your own list above shows DeBruyne IN FRONT OF the other mids. Not as one of a 3, but IN FRONT of the other two! THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE I AM SAYING HE PLAYS but of course he doesn't just stay there he moves around. But he gies back to that position when we are in formation. So do Silva Nasri when they play there, so did Jovetic. You can see this watching the game, it's obvious. Why are you going on about this as if I am saying something else?

Now centre mids Fernando & Fernandinho were winning the battle vs Real Madrid in spite of being in a 2. Imagine a balanced team with tactical adaptation rather than DeBruyne on the wing & a forward in his position ? Sure we don't have an extra star in midfield, yet.

It was pretty obvious to everyone in the summer who the other star midfielder was: Pogba. Yes we had to put up with just DeBruyne & Sterling as big signings because we didn't get Pogba. We could have done a Mancini & spent another 50 mil on shite squad players instead, but rightly, we kept that down to a minimum & will have another go at some top players in the summer. In the meantime the manager has to manage.

So we have Fernandinho, Fernando, Delph, Yaya who play there regularly (except the manager only uses Delph on the wing) then we have Zabaleta, Kompany who have played there with some success in the past, then we have lightweight Thiago/Iniesta kind of players like Silva & Nasri who could play there in a different system, but not in a two, particularly not in the Prem, both Garcias, Kean Bryan, George Evans, probably Denayer who also could play there & help keep everyone fit & shsrp.

Try Thiago & Alonso in a two with Silva & Navas out wide (I notice Navas gets in your list of comparisons as a front 3 but not Silva Sterling or Nasri) and see how they get on v Liverpool's 5. They woudn't even get a kick. They would need to play as part of a system which suited them. So do our players. Give Pep this exact same group & he would try a whole bunch of players & systems & players in different positions (such as Lahm, the fullback who you are comparing in a midfield role) in order to find answers to different problems.

(I notice PSG's & Dortmund's midfield players have disappeared from your list of superior players nowardays btw)

Since Pellegrini has arrived at City we have played basically the same system with the only variety down to the type of player at No 10.

Ironically, last season due to injuries, he was forced to change it & we pkayed more similar to the way Klopp played v us. I think we equalled the club record for wins round about that time. Then he changed back.
Click to expand...


De Bruyne is a 10. He's deployed in that role at MANCHESTER City. He is not nor has he ever played in a central midfield 3 for club or country. That puts an end to that.

With regars to your point about Tuesday night, what tactical tweak do you suggest?

I agree with regards spending 50 million shite. To me, we needed a centre mid far greater than Sterling and De Bruyne. Silva and Nasri's issues have made that far less obvious.

Navas gets my nod because there's no way we could start a big CL game without him. As our midfield options don't support it.

No, BVB and PSG still have superior midfields to us, as do Juve. I was comparing us to the very elite.

His recorded braking system was Identical to the one he's played all season.
Back four. 2 holding midfielders, silva in a ten.


Again though, your argument is just your opinion. It has zero substance. Just a list of your mind numbing opinions with nothing to back them up. Like always.

Fuck it, you're right. He's a clueless ****. If only he knew what you did. Let's all act like children and call him names.
 
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