EU referendum

[Helmet Cole]

Sinn Fein and that nice Gerry Adams man want us to vote remain.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Fucking hell..you can feel the desperation of remain arguments now

'The sky is falling in!'

They cry

It's really not...

 

[cibaman]

Johnson will never be PM.
Mark my words.

Why not?

 

[hgblue]

Why not?

Regardless of the result of the referendum the next Tory leader will be from the Brexit side of the debate. It's inconceivable that any of the other main players on the leave side will stand against Boris. I'd be interested to see what the odds are because he's an absolute shoe in imo.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

If I could weigh in to the debate.

Eddie Izzard, I know your funny, you can run and wear lipstick, but please, shut the fuck up!

Thank you.

He is not even funny.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Alan?

Alas, I think his time has passed but he could have been a respectable centre left pm who would have led the country with good humour....

 

[inchy14]

Well my vote has now been cast, first time postal voter as I'm away. So no one can change my mind.

Hopefully plenty of others will follow suit and vote one way or the other.

Let's leave.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Vote Leave

Yes to workers’ rights
No to TTIP
Exit the EU on the basis of socialist policies
Keep Britain out of the Eurozone
No to austerity whether from Brussels or Britain
Reject EU treaties that curtail democracy, encourage social dumping and demand privatisation
No to EU policies that privatise our transport and postal services
No to the EU-US Trade Agreement which threaten our NHS
No to unequal EU trade agreements
Scrap EU rules designed to stop member states from implementing independent economic policies
Develop sustainable manufacturing, agriculture and fishing industries in Britain
Repeal anti-trade union EU court rulings and rules which undermine collective agreements
No to racism and fascism
Yes to international solidarity of working people
No to EU militarisation and an EU army

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Some interesting and insightful debate on this thread , but for all the knowledgeable contributions , it will be the immigration issues that will turn this referendum into a landslide victory for Brexit , personally i do not believe any of the Tory stats or figures , or the Brexit figures , and i do not think our health,education or economy will be affected greatly either way , and neither campaign has convinced otherwise . But i do believe strongly if we leave europe , we will control our borders ,as for the economy predictions they are just pure speculation by Tory voting financial experts , who only recently didnt see the banking crash coming over the horizon only 10 years ago , so i dont believe a word they say, either.

Hi mate....thanks for the comments...I agree its been a poor campaign on both sides, which is very sad when its such an important issue...I'm firmly "stay" but wasnt always that way...but this thread, facts(or lack of them) and opinions for and against, helped confirm those feelings to me....I was open to be persuaded to change my view if the Boris Johnson's of the world could give me answers, a plan and confidence that leaving would be best for the country...but this process has worked in the complete opposite..They've been selling "immigration and pride in our country" as the answer to everything and at risk of our economy...the savings they say we'll make and be able to put back into services are simply not true (his own supporters have confirmed the tariffs chargers on exports could take care of most of those savings...the NHS, education etc wont see a penny! and most economy/business experts on "both" sides seem to be saying there will be damaged in the "short term" to our economy, so this just isnt a point of view just to support an argument(investment has already started moving out on the UK at just the "uncertainty that we might leave)....There are risks on both sides and both campaigns (leave and stay) have been very poor at giving the country the answers they are looking for...but I firmly belieive (just my opinion so no facts!:)that if we vote out for the reason of immigration issues and to control our borders, that when the dust settles and we have to start negotiating a new trade agreement with the EU that those issues will still be there and that any agreement we do with the EU on trade will go hand in hand with freedom of movement(again until we do a deal no one really knows what will happen!) just like with countries like Switzerland (who the EU have recently blocked a cap on immigration numbers)...EU needs improvement but I still believe that most of the problems in this country are caused by our own politicians......After saying all that I do agree....Leave could win this on "immigration" because topics like this and with "pride in our country" will always fuel emotion and passion....its like a "rally call"...no one gets passionate over economy and trade tariffs!;) atleast I hope not!he! ;) .......but with a weaker economy...its really not going to matter whether we have immigration issue or not....we could have even "less" money for NHS, even less money for education....and its that which could put us over the edge...not people coming here from overseas!;) Lots of speculation on both sides(and from me!;) of the argument and risks to any vote we make but as a family man I prefer to pick the "safer" option.....;) Cheers for your comments mate....

 

[nmc]

I bet most Europeans watching England's finest in France can't wait for us to fuck off - as a nation our PR stinks.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Boris and his pals want no European employment protection and wage legislation. They want non unionised cheap labour to maximise their profits that is all. A Tory cabinet under Boris would be much further to the right, Britain would be broken up and England would be extremely isolated with neighbours looking to put the boot in on all sides. Voting to leave would be madness for the majority of the population .

I agree...Thats how I see it mate......I could never support a leader of the "leave" that says...working class people "should pay for their NHS and maybe then they'd appreciate it".....do we really believe he wants what is best for us?...I think not!;)

 

[blueonblue]

Boris and his pals want no European employment protection and wage legislation. They want non unionised cheap labour to maximise their profits that is all. A Tory cabinet under Boris would be much further to the right,

Last time I looked it was being in the EU that gave us zero hour contracts and a flood of cheap migrant labour ( Migrants dont usually join unions either ), its also an EU policy to drive down wages as has been pointed out on here several times and led directly to the strikes in France at the moment.

Your very much barking up the wrong tree treacle.

 

[mat]

I bet most Europeans watching England's finest in France can't wait for us to fuck off - as a nation our PR stinks.

Agreed.

like fucking locusts .

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Last time I looked it was being in the EU that gave us zero hour contracts and a flood of cheap migrant labour ( Migrants dont usually join unions either ), its also an EU policy to drive down wages as has been pointed out on here several times and led directly to the strikes in France at the moment.

Your very much barking up the wrong tree treacle.

As mentioned yesterday mate....Unions like NASUWT in teaching are voting to "stay" to protect "working rights"....and feel its members will be worse off out of the EU.....so there is pros and cons to which ever side you sit on!;) cheers

 

[daztrueblue91]

We live in a society where it is always somebody else's fault. Too many people want to find a scapegoat and blame all of their problems or failings on something or somebody else. A large basis of the immigration debate seems to be based on this misguided view that the "foreigners are coming over here and taking our jobs". It's an absolute bollocks argument and in my experience I often find that it's the foreigners who come over here who are less likely to progress in a job because of their accent rather than being handed things on a plate.

What happened to people's sense of drive and desire to better themselves? More competition in the workplace should inspire people to work harder and go that one step further. Instead I've found, albeit on a small scale, that it has the opposite effect. Where people think they have the divine right to demand a higher pay or believe that some jobs are below them just because they are British.

Whilst I was at University I worked in a meat factory over the summer months and I'd say that 80% of the workforce were Eastern European. To say that they was hardworking would have been an understatement. I have never worked so hard in my life. Yet despite a workforce which was overwhelmingly foreign, all of the managers and supervisors were British.

I've never been more disillusioned with politics than I am now. It pisses me off how when debating a topic which could have huge ramifications on our future, none of the politicians will answer a single question honestly.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

We live in a society where it is always somebody else's fault. Too many people want to find a scapegoat and blame all of their problems or failings on something or somebody else. A large basis of the immigration debate seems to be based on this misguided view that the "foreigners are coming over here and taking our jobs". It's an absolute bollocks argument and in my experience I often find that it's the foreigners who come over here who are less likely to progress in a job because of their accent rather than being handed things on a plate.

What happened to people's sense of drive and desire to better themselves? More competition in the workplace should inspire people to work harder and go that one step further. Instead I've found, albeit on a small scale, that it has the opposite effect. Where people think they have the divine right to demand a higher pay or believe that some jobs are below them just because they are British.

Whilst I was at University I worked in a meat factory over the summer months and I'd say that 80% of the workforce were Eastern European. To say that they was hardworking would have been an understatement. I have never worked so hard in my life. Yet despite a workforce which was overwhelmingly foreign, all of the managers and supervisors were British.

I've never been more disillusioned with politics than I am now. It pisses me off how when debating a topic which could have huge ramifications on our future, none of the politicians will answer a single question honestly.

excellent post mate! ;)

 

[mat]

We live in a society where it is always somebody else's fault. Too many people want to find a scapegoat and blame all of their problems or failings on something or somebody else. A large basis of the immigration debate seems to be based on this misguided view that the "foreigners are coming over here and taking our jobs". It's an absolute bollocks argument and in my experience I often find that it's the foreigners who come over here who are less likely to progress in a job because of their accent rather than being handed things on a plate.

What happened to people's sense of drive and desire to better themselves? More competition in the workplace should inspire people to work harder and go that one step further. Instead I've found, albeit on a small scale, that it has the opposite effect. Where people think they have the divine right to demand a higher pay or believe that some jobs are below them just because they are British.

Whilst I was at University I worked in a meat factory over the summer months and I'd say that 80% of the workforce were Eastern European. To say that they was hardworking would have been an understatement. I have never worked so hard in my life. Yet despite a workforce which was overwhelmingly foreign, all of the managers and supervisors were British.

I've never been more disillusioned with politics than I am now. It pisses me off how when debating a topic which could have huge ramifications on our future, none of the politicians will answer a single question honestly.

superb post.

 

[tshirtman]

I find it somewhat strange that people are using James Dyson as a reason to push for leave,
this is a businessman who's model is fuck everyone else I'm alright jack, let's not forget this bloke moved his entire production line to Malaysia costing 900 jobs here in the UK just to save a few £££
If Dyson say leave then I'm more likely to vote remain.

 

[mat]

 

[YPhrunts]

Hi mate....thanks for the comments...I agree its been a poor campaign on both sides, which is very sad when its such an important issue...I'm firmly "stay" but wasnt always that way...but this thread, facts(or lack of them) and opinions for and against, helped confirm those feelings to me....I was open to be persuaded to change my view if the Boris Johnson's of the world could give me answers, a plan and confidence that leaving would be best for the country...but this process has worked in the complete opposite..They've been selling "immigration and pride in our country" as the answer to everything and at risk of our economy...the savings they say we'll make and be able to put back into services are simply not true (his own supporters have confirmed the tariffs chargers on exports could take care of most of those savings...the NHS, education etc wont see a penny! and most economy/business experts on "both" sides seem to be saying there will be damaged in the "short term" to our economy, so this just isnt a point of view just to support an argument(investment has already started moving out on the UK at just the "uncertainty that we might leave)....There are risks on both sides and both campaigns (leave and stay) have been very poor at giving the country the answers they are looking for...but I firmly belieive (just my opinion so no facts!:)that if we vote out for the reason of immigration issues and to control our borders, that when the dust settles and we have to start negotiating a new trade agreement with the EU that those issues will still be there and that any agreement we do with the EU on trade will go hand in hand with freedom of movement(again until we do a deal no one really knows what will happen!) just like with countries like Switzerland (who the EU have recently blocked a cap on immigration numbers)...EU needs improvement but I still believe that most of the problems in this country are caused by our own politicians......After saying all that I do agree....Leave could win this on "immigration" because topics like this and with "pride in our country" will always fuel emotion and passion....its like a "rally call"...no one gets passionate over economy and trade tariffs!;) atleast I hope not!he! ;) .......but with a weaker economy...its really not going to matter whether we have immigration issue or not....we could have even "less" money for NHS, even less money for education....and its that which could put us over the edge...not people coming here from overseas!;) Lots of speculation on both sides(and from me!;) of the argument and risks to any vote we make but as a family man I prefer to pick the "safer" option.....;) Cheers for your comments mate....

You have missed the issue completely. But you are not alone. It's typical of people that want assurances and avoid risks at all costs.
This is not a general election where either side present a manifesto for the future. Boris and Gove are not trying for a political coup and have no manifesto to present. It would be bizarre to want that which is what you want to happen. It's a referendum on the issues as they stand. You know what the EU represents. You either want that or you don't. Stop expecting fantastic plans for the future. That is not in the remit or what this referendum demands.