EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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EalingBlue2 said:
I think Venezuela and their go against the globe attitude has done a lot of damage to the country. It's sad as, as you well know I sympathise to the left
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Their go against the globe attitude involved implementing socialism, and the drearily obvious conclusion to that decision is the formerly richest
country in South America now being a complete basket case.
Very much like large areas of the EU, but further along.
 
argyle said:
No one in the E.U. want's to fully Veto Turkey to never joining the E.U. It just will not be for many, many years, if at all.

They applied to join in 1987.

It's just that they are so far behind in meeting the E.U. criteria to join. The BBC fact check site said of the 35 conditions to meet to join since the 80's they've met one.

Even if they then miraculously met the other 34, all E.U. countries hold a Veto and I can't see Greece saying yes let alone us.
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This will be the Greece that is in debt up to it's eyeballs to the banks of the 'key' EU countries - they will do as they are fucking told - as will Cyprus whose country is partitioned through Turkish invasion. And the UK? well Dave has committed to use our veto so that's OK - oh wait!
 
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Not sure if it's been covered already, but that outburst from Juncker was a little strange...I mean, flexing on an 'opponent' is one thing, but when you want them to go your way, why poke the hornet's nest?

It's almost as if he wanted to provoke a Leave backlash...are we seeing a covert plea to change the EU from someone inside who could never explicitly voice such thoughts for fear of reprisal on their career? An institutionalised cry for help? Are we being asked to slay the EU by the monster itself?
 
Luck95 said:
Oh please, come out of your little bubble. Im a leave voter and have NO fear or anger about migrants, i welcome migrants, i recognize and like the contribution they bring to the UK. What is a 'utter fucking joke' (nice language) is you talking down to people like it.
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She considers all to be bigots - without having the capability to understand the irony
 
MadchesterCity said:
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.

Also does anybody really think that when we do vote to leave that David Cameron will still be prime minister? His job would be untenable.....



Bottom line is that nobody with certain the outcome but if you believe we should control our own finances with an accountable electable political party not some faceless unelectable beauracrat them we must vote out. It's the only option which allows us to control our destiny.
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Very well researched and articulated post Madchester. How do you account for the fact that the vast majority of leaders of the economy, industry, political leadership,academia, arts, sport and other political heads of state all recommend that we remain? Please explain why they have got it wrong whilst your arguments are correct.
 
jacko74 said:
I read as far as you having the opinion that "we have a strong economy today" and realised there's no point in reading any further so I honestly dont know if you went on to say you're in favour of leave or remain.

Regardless of the whole EU debate anyone who believes and regurgitates the government propaganda that "we have a strong economy" clearly has a very poor grasp of the reality of the situation.
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You should have read the rest then mate, as it shows I have a "complete grasp" of the situation and know "just enough" about immigration, economy etc to make an informed decision/judgement ....I'm voting "in" by the way!;)
 
well I can say in my own circles that about 80/85% are remain, but a lot are students or ex-students so that probably explains why.

Nonetheless, I expect remain to have a resounding win today and for their voters to be crying in the years to come as their jobs, health service, education and pensions, especially for the next 2 generations, will be savaged by multi-national conglomerates who will now own our decision-making process in Brussels, rather than have to bribe our own politicians and thus actually cause arguments and debate. It will be just like America (just worse), who incidentally will own a lot of it i.e. no real democracy.
 
glyncity said:
Excellent post on the subject and exactly how i and many feel on the subject , the EU has many faults without a doubt , but a vote to leave is like throwing the baby out with the bath water as they say
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Tried to find a "like" button! ;) I agree....cheers!
 
mcfc1632 said:
so she is either totally thick - or a thread vandal - great that on a thread that is discussing a really important issue
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Maybe so. When I posted my comment this phase of the debate hadn't got so heated and I haven't had chance to read all the posts over the last 24 hours.

Most of what I read from Pam seemed pretty reasonable!
 
BigJoe#1 said:
The perfect post. Let's hope many people who have been frightened into voting for Remain read thus before it's too late!
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Hi Bigjoe....I'm not frightened mate....just standing up for what I believe!;) and I truly believe after looking at the pros and cons, risk and rewards that "IN" is right vote for the country......but I think you can tell from this debate that I completely respect those views that disagree and understand the arguments....just off to the polling station now to vote in!;) but whatever happens, I'll support this country with whatever decision is made today......cheers mate.
 
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