EU referendum

[MillionMilesAway]

We only elect 73. There are 751 MEP's, 100 more than our own House of Commons and the UK MEP's are outvoted every time.

In a wholly implausible yet still factually possible scenario, we, the British public, could elect politicians of a major political party in the UK, that promises to introduce a bill to abolish the HoL if elected (wasn't Blair aiming to do that in the early 2000's, btw?), becoming elected into power by popular vote of the British public, thus giving the majority controling party the power to enact the bill, who then appoint "turkey's for christmas" Lords to approve it. The EU Commission would never create a bill proposing the closure of the EU Commission for those MEP's in the EP to vote on. There's the difference. There is no method or system that would allow us, the British public, to do such a thing.

Spun into wrongness.
You say: The HoC could. The EU won't.

That's just not true, is it? They both could, neither will.

 

[Metal Biker]

Good question but then i would not have us in the position we are in now. I would not have said we would have a referendum.
I have no faith in Dave in anything he does so i would have to see what happens rather than predict. They may go through or they may be used as a strengthened bargaining point for the EU.
I am not happy that the Election funding scandal has not been given more prominence as i am not sure wether this tory government is legal but as it is currently wrapped up in legal moves, the press say they cannot report it.

As we are in the EU i would say those that have switched are Brexit. Those that feel they do not trust him may well be voting out for that reason. Yes some may switch to remain on his words but would you trust him?, the vote is much bigger than what one dope has said.

I've never trusted Cameron and never voted Conserative for the reason I think he's a slimy little...person who's only out to look out for himself and his elitist cronies.

The reforms he's promised went a long way for me to consider me voting to remain, on the basis that he'd get the reforms approved. Then the realisation comes out that he's only secured a 'proposal' that the EU would 'look at the reforms' and that the likelyhood is that, because the way the EU is set up, they would reject them outright.

That wasn't enough for me to declare support for the EU anymore and the rhetoric coming out of the EU that "a vote in means the UK is supportive of the idea of an EU centralized power and they should stop trying to have things their own way" just sealed it for me that the EU was not something I wanted to see materialise.

But then again, i'm just a far right, racist, uneducated, little englander. (Not aiming this at you as ever being a slur you've used against me or anyone else on this forum. Just highlighting what i've had to deal with whne arguing what I feel are geuinely understandable reasons for my decision to vote leave)

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

someones thrown their toys out boo hoo

it was what's called replying in kind, beyond your cognitive capabilities clearly.

 

[Metal Biker]

Spun into wrongness.
You say: The HoC could. The EU won't.

That's just not true, is it? They both could, neither will.

Why would the EC propose a bill to eliminate itself?

The House of LORDS wouldn;t accept a bill to be eliminated, but then it wouldn't be their decision to propose it. The HoL could vote to block or reject the bill, but since they are appointed and can be appointed by MP's, or likeminded individuals who wish to become Lords to destroy the HoL from within, the scenario could theoretically happen.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

i can happily say it with the same certainty that you can say it will be protected if we leave, which was really the point.

I can't say with any certainty that it'll be protected if we leave. I completely agree with you that the Tory wolves would love to pounce on the NHS.

But the real point is if they start that process, we can kick them out in 2020, if not before. If the EU stitch up the NHS (or any other public service) through TTIP then it doesn't matter what we do.

It's not much of a choice I agree but I'd prefer to take my chances with the Tories rather than the EU.



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[Zuriblue]

Make sure you take a black pen with you just been told they're using pencils FFS.

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/23/massive-eu-referendum-conspiracy-foiled-after-voter-uses-a-pen/

A huge and complex rigging of a nationwide referendum has come apart at the seams thanks to the wonder of pens.

The government, the Rothschilds, the lizard people and/or the Royal Family had all nailed down a foolproof rigging system to ensure that Britain would remain in the EU.

“But now the bastards are using pens!” cried Simon Williams, Head of Conspiracy over at MI5.

“We can’t use rubbers on pens, believe me, I’ve just given it a go.

 

[Blue Mooner]

No, i am pointing out our democracy is the same as the the EU elections. Brexit continually harp they are unelected, they are not.
It seems you are not happy and are even less happy that it is clear there is very little difference. You have not swallowed their lies have you?
I voted for Afzal Khan in the EU election. He represents me as he is a Labour party nominee and he represented the idea closest to me, just as i did Jeff Smith as he is the Labour party candidate.

Ken, I'm fighting a losing battle here. It is so blatantly not the same I'm genuinely astonished that you can't see the difference. So you voted for Afzal Khan representing labour as MEP.

When you voted for him, what EU policies was he promising to implement if elected as the MEP in the EU parliament and under which party in the EU were those policies going to be Implemented?

I suspect the answer is you had no idea because those laws are conceived by the EU commission behind closed doors and then passed to those MEPs to be approved, effectively waved through.

 

[aguero93:20]

We only elect 73. There are 751 MEP's, 100 more than our own House of Commons and the UK MEP's are outvoted every time.

Yet in the HOC, you personally have only voted for one candidate, if the candidate you voted for actually gets elected. The area you live in has probably elected 4/5.

 

[The Chief]

I saw a lot of people on Twitter telling people to take pens to the polls. Guess some people really are that paranoid.

Far from being paranoia, I wouldn't bet against votes being altered to achieve the government's wish. The British are no better than others in that there will always be an unseen level of corruption.

 

[Blue Mooner]

The unelected peers in the HoL already have the power to veto laws. Dave has been hammered numerous times.
The EU works the same, the Parliament puts forward the proposals after months of negotiation and the top boys then either see it through or ask the Parliament amend what is needed.

Wrong again, the House of Lords under the act of Parliament can veto very few laws.

 

[Metal Biker]

Think whatever you like about me.

Far right always like to cast themselves as Libertarian.

And those who accuse others of being 'far right' without any plausible deductive reasoning other than "i disagree with you!" are something much, much worse.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Well the pollstation poll had close to 147,000 votes and 81% of them voted leave.

http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/

The Telegraph poll (not exactly unbiased, obviously) had something like 460,000 votes on their page and it was 77% leave. (When I last checked a few days ago)

Crumbs of hope?

We can but hope.u

 

[M18CTID]

near enough all the polls are even, and even then they were all wrong last year. I just dont see how the bookies would know, when the majority haven't voted yet. unless its rigged they can't know. i think lots more people are going to vote out today then originally thought

I was going to make the same point earlier after seeing the odds shorten hugely this morning on Remain. Maybe the bookies are reacting to the last polls before voting opened, the ComRes one showing Remain with a lead of 8 points but I'm sure that poll was published late last night and the odds only started tumbling this morning so maybe it was more to do with how the financial markets were performing this morning coupled with people sticking considerable bets on Remain on the back of the strong showing in the stock marker? Thinking about it, the bookies odds could indeed be linked to the stock exchange as a lot of those gains in the FTSE 100 this morning have been reeled in and a quick look at Oddschcker now shows the odds lengthening on Remain with some bookies offering 1/6 and 1/7 as opposed to 1/12 earlier.

 

[Metal Biker]

Yet in the HOC, you personally have only voted for one candidate, if the candidate you voted for actually gets elected. The area you live in has probably elected 4/5.

My MP represents my area and works for my area on matters that directly affect me and my neighbours.

How many non-UK MEP's know anything about the needs for South Manchester?

Which 'sides' of the EP have British interests in mind? They don't they are there to promote the EU.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The unelected peers in the HoL already have the power to veto laws. Dave has been hammered numerous times.
The EU works the same, the Parliament puts forward the proposals after months of negotiation and the top boys then either see it through or ask the Parliament amend what is needed.

That's not how the EU legislative process works Ken. The Commission puts forward the proposals but it can do that in one of two ways.

Normally these would go to both the Parliament and the Council of Ministers who would discuss them. If they're not happy they can send them back to the Commission with amendments. They'll then go to a second reading and if they still don't agree it gets dropped. Basically that's not dissimilar to what we have in the UK. In fact it's probably a bit better as the Commission can't steamroller anything through, which the UK government can do.

But for the really strategic stuff, they don't need Parliament to agree, they just need to consult it.

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[Barry Conlons wig]

it was what's called replying in kind, beyond your cognitive capabilities clearly.

no its called being a slapped arse that doesn't like it when someone has another opinion!!!!

 

[Matty]

I think a lot of people who are voting, whether that be to leave or remain, are doing so from a position of limited information. The complexities relating to the EU, and the impact on the country and the population, of either staying or going are vast, way too huge for your average member of the public to have the time to get their heads around and fully understand. That's the truly scary thing, people are making such a fundamentally important decision with extremely limited information, and in some cases a complete lack of understanding. There should never have been a referendum, it's beyond stupid to expect your average member of the public (let alone some of the morons in this country) to have the time, inclination or intellect to grasp all the issues and make a fully informed decision on something so complex. I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person and I'm still taking a punt, hazarding a guess, at what's the best decision to make.

 

[aguero93:20]

My MP represents my area and works for my area on matters that directly affect me and my neighbours.

How many non-UK MEP's know anything about the needs for South Manchester?

Which 'sides' of the EP have British interests in mind? They don't they are there to promote the EU.

How do MPs from areas outside of where you live know anything about your area's needs?

Which 'sides' of the HOC have your interests in mind? They don't, they're there to promote the UK.

 

[manctheknife]

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/23/massive-eu-referendum-conspiracy-foiled-after-voter-uses-a-pen/

Don't want to alarm anyone, but there are such things as ink rubbers....just sayin'

 

[Wolfkin]

Just voted out!