Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

[Daz_Blue]

Does anyone think that Corbyn is about as electable as Michael Foot was ?

 

[malg]

Maybe it is time to introduce compulsory politics lessons into the GCSE curriculum. Or at a minimum reintroduce the 'Life Skills' lessons which will give kids the knowledge of voting, paying taxes and managing bills etc.

I think its vital that the next generation of youngsters are brought up fully aware of the political system and are able to see the difference between sensationalist headlines and the truth. I suppose it could easily be constructed that the teacher would be able to influence the kids future votes, but not more so than the parents or local area already do. It could be taught in a way that just explains the voting system, why people should vote, the influence of the media and the up to date ideologies of political parties.

Personally I voted to remain in the EU because I simply believe that we are stronger when we work co-operatively with other countries. I was also glad that Scotland remained in the UK. I think that immigration could have been solved without leaving the EU. There is no way the EU would have forced Britain to just accept anyone from any EU country and just give them free benefits and healthcare like the media makes out. It would be financially unsustainable for a start. I'm sure an agreement could have easily have been made for Britain to control their borders and limit the amount of people coming into the country without work. I also believe that we should be using immigration to boost the standard of the workforce in Britain. We should use the competition to boost our abilities. However, there is a lack of personal responsibility in this country and the 'immigrants taking all our jobs' argument is just a convenience excuse for people to be lazy. But that is just my opinion. People will disagree as they are entitled to but that was my reason for voting remain.

Yet when I spoke to people who voted I was shocked and surprised for the reasons they voted. There was people who voted to remain just because they disliked Nigel Farage. There was people who voted out because they believed that leaving the EU would save the NHS and would immediately create thousands of jobs for British people and all the immigrants would have to leave. Democracy is a wonderful thing and we are very lucky that we have been born into this society. But people shouldn't abuse the vote or take it for granted. People should have a responsibility to actually understand what they are voting for. I also think that it should be a legal requirement to vote and want to encourage the next generation to vote and maybe education can do that.

Ignorance shouldn't surprise anyone. We've got areas of this country who will vote Labour regardless of policies or leader, as that's just how they vote. It's the exact same with the Conservatives. Access to the internet and all it's resources should make the younger generation more savvy and aware, but it's just made free porn more accessible.

 

[2sheikhs]

People calling Blair a murderer!!
It wasn't exactly a unilateral decision by him. He was supported by the necessary majority in parliament.
He's a leader and a statesman naturally. He turned labour from a protest movement into a government. Now they're a hybrid of castro and the greens. Totally unelectable.

 

[whp.blue]

Maybe it is time to introduce compulsory politics lessons into the GCSE curriculum. Or at a minimum reintroduce the 'Life Skills' lessons which will give kids the knowledge of voting, paying taxes and managing bills etc.

I think its vital that the next generation of youngsters are brought up fully aware of the political system and are able to see the difference between sensationalist headlines and the truth. I suppose it could easily be constructed that the teacher would be able to influence the kids future votes, but not more so than the parents or local area already do. It could be taught in a way that just explains the voting system, why people should vote, the influence of the media and the up to date ideologies of political parties.

Personally I voted to remain in the EU because I simply believe that we are stronger when we work co-operatively with other countries. I was also glad that Scotland remained in the UK. I think that immigration could have been solved without leaving the EU. There is no way the EU would have forced Britain to just accept anyone from any EU country and just give them free benefits and healthcare like the media makes out. It would be financially unsustainable for a start. I'm sure an agreement could have easily have been made for Britain to control their borders and limit the amount of people coming into the country without work. I also believe that we should be using immigration to boost the standard of the workforce in Britain. We should use the competition to boost our abilities. However, there is a lack of personal responsibility in this country and the 'immigrants taking all our jobs' argument is just a convenience excuse for people to be lazy. But that is just my opinion. People will disagree as they are entitled to but that was my reason for voting remain.

Yet when I spoke to people who voted I was shocked and surprised for the reasons they voted. There was people who voted to remain just because they disliked Nigel Farage. There was people who voted out because they believed that leaving the EU would save the NHS and would immediately create thousands of jobs for British people and all the immigrants would have to leave. Democracy is a wonderful thing and we are very lucky that we have been born into this society. But people shouldn't abuse the vote or take it for granted. People should have a responsibility to actually understand what they are voting for. I also think that it should be a legal requirement to vote and want to encourage the next generation to vote and maybe education can do that.

What would you do for the ones who are not very bright and still do not understand it would you remove their right ti vote?
Alsi are you saying no one should gave the right to vote as they see fit what would you do if someone saud they were just going to close their eyes and puck one?
That is a very slippery slope
You could have a similar system regarding the right to have children?

 

[Helmet Cole]

Does anyone think that Corbyn is about as electable as Michael Foot was ?

I'd imagine all the people who said he'd not won the party leadership, be gone by last Xmas, and would certainly not see Cameron off still think that.

 

[malg]

I don't think there is anyone who looks electable and has Corbyns views, that is why he was unfairly ridiculed from the offset. Socialism is dead rightly or wrongly. Middle england don't believe it can work. The grass roots of labour want to pursue it, Corbyn and his allies want to as well, unfortunately a lot of labour mp's see it differently.

It's a strange situation a lot of labour mp's appear to be in the wrong party.

They actually mentioned on 5Live that maybe the Right of the Labour Party, and those on the Left of the Conservatives may not be politically that far apart and could form a new party. I think it was in response to Diane Abbott's very balanced opinions on those who questioned the Labour leadership (if you don't like it, go and form your own party).

 

[blueparrot]

Was just asking because I was curious to see how many people who voted for Corbyn last time would do the same this time
Lots of Corbyn backers on here don't even have a vote

And as for being petty not really I am doing exactly the same as you voting for who I think will benefit me best and that for me is cp Corbyn
I have been a union member since I was 16 so I have paid my dues fior 30 odd years and I think that gives me the right for who I feel fit

How could Corbyn benefit you, unless you think he can win an election?. Surely the most benefit would be somebody who only offers some of what you want but can get elected and deliver it is better than Corbyn promising most of what you want but delivering nothing but another Tory government.
It's a genuine question from somebody who had the same argument with other Labour voters during the 80s and 90s. I'm probably one, Labour need to win back to win an election.

 

[whp.blue]

Does anyone think that Corbyn is about as electable as Michael Foot was ?

Less so as he has far fewer quailties than Foot

 

[hilts]

I don't know, I do like Clive Lewis who holds quite left wing views and his journalistic past makes him very comfortable with media and getting the message across, whether he would want it, is another thing.

David Milliband I doubt would want or care about the job.

The name doesn't ring a bell, what does holds quite left wing views mean? The grass roots wanted a different direction, anti new labour if you like, someone who is a bit of a leftie will soon be poked into coming around believe me. When was the last time we had a government that roughly followed the beliefs of Corbyn or labours members?

 

[daztrueblue91]

What would you do for the ones who are not very bright and still do not understand it would you remove their right ti vote?
Alsi are you saying no one should gave the right to vote as they see fit what would you do if someone saud they were just going to close their eyes and puck one?
That is a very slippery slope
You could have a similar system regarding the right to have children?

I never said anything about removing anyone's right to vote.

Just that if there are things that can be done to make people more aware of voting then surely it would be in Britain's best interests to do so.

 

[malg]

The name doesn't ring a bell, what does holds quite left wing views mean? The grass roots wanted a different direction, anti new labour if you like, someone who is a bit of a leftie will soon be poked into coming around believe me. When was the last time we had a government that roughly followed the beliefs of Corbyn or labours members?

Just think Jermain Jena's in 20 years and you've got a decent image of him.

 

[whp.blue]

How could Corbyn benefit you, unless you think he can win an election?. Surely the most benefit would be somebody who only offers some of what you want but can get elected and deliver it is better than Corbyn promising most of what you want but delivering nothing but another Tory government.
It's a genuine question from somebody who had the same argument with other Labour voters during the 80s and 90s. I'm probably one, Labour need to win back to win an election.

I benefit from Corbyn because I benefit from a right of centre Goverment and Corbyn leading the Labour party makes that much more likely
In thirty odd years of being a union member I have never said I would blindly vote for a labour Government as Labour moves away from the centre I will never vote labour ever again

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I think its vital that the next generation of youngsters are brought up fully aware of the political system and are able to see the difference between sensationalist headlines and the truth. I suppose it could easily be constructed that the teacher would be able to influence the kids future votes, but not more so than the parents or local area already do. It could be taught in a way that just explains the voting system, why people should vote, the influence of the media and the up to date ideologies of political parties.

Yeah, it's always confused me why we spend so much time teaching religion when politics or economics have such a greater affect on most people's lives nowadays.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Maybe it is time to introduce compulsory politics lessons into the GCSE curriculum. Or at a minimum reintroduce the 'Life Skills' lessons which will give kids the knowledge of voting, paying taxes and managing bills etc.

I think its vital that the next generation of youngsters are brought up fully aware of the political system and are able to see the difference between sensationalist headlines and the truth. I suppose it could easily be constructed that the teacher would be able to influence the kids future votes, but not more so than the parents or local area already do. It could be taught in a way that just explains the voting system, why people should vote, the influence of the media and the up to date ideologies of political parties.

Personally I voted to remain in the EU because I simply believe that we are stronger when we work co-operatively with other countries. I was also glad that Scotland remained in the UK. I think that immigration could have been solved without leaving the EU. There is no way the EU would have forced Britain to just accept anyone from any EU country and just give them free benefits and healthcare like the media makes out. It would be financially unsustainable for a start. I'm sure an agreement could have easily have been made for Britain to control their borders and limit the amount of people coming into the country without work. I also believe that we should be using immigration to boost the standard of the workforce in Britain. We should use the competition to boost our abilities. However, there is a lack of personal responsibility in this country and the 'immigrants taking all our jobs' argument is just a convenience excuse for people to be lazy. But that is just my opinion. People will disagree as they are entitled to but that was my reason for voting remain.

Yet when I spoke to people who voted I was shocked and surprised for the reasons they voted. There was people who voted to remain just because they disliked Nigel Farage. There was people who voted out because they believed that leaving the EU would save the NHS and would immediately create thousands of jobs for British people and all the immigrants would have to leave. Democracy is a wonderful thing and we are very lucky that we have been born into this society. But people shouldn't abuse the vote or take it for granted. People should have a responsibility to actually understand what they are voting for. I also think that it should be a legal requirement to vote and want to encourage the next generation to vote and maybe education can do that.

That's possibly the politest and most long winded way imaginable of saying brexiters are thick and not worthy of having a vote. Well done.

 

[adrianr]

How could Corbyn benefit you, unless you think he can win an election?. Surely the most benefit would be somebody who only offers some of what you want but can get elected and deliver it is better than Corbyn promising most of what you want but delivering nothing but another Tory government.
It's a genuine question from somebody who had the same argument with other Labour voters during the 80s and 90s. I'm probably one, Labour need to win back to win an election.

I'd love to know too. I actually like a lot of Corbyn's policies and of all the party leaders we're probably the closest aligned, but what good is that if the man is un-electable? I'm happy to sacrifice some points in order to further others, most importantly to give this country back a strong opposition which I believe is crucial to the day to day function of any democracy. We need accountability, and no matter how many of the mans views I agree with I don't see how Corbyn possibly provides that.

As far fetched as the idea seems now, I'm wondering if the only hope lay in this left-Tory right-Labour splinter party idea.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I too don't mind Cameron. I think he's head and shoulders above anyone else in the Tory party, but he's made a judgement call which has spectacularly failed, notwithstanding how completely unexpected it was. No matter how skilled a politician is, they are only ever one bad call from tarnishing their legacy, as he's done. The repercussions for this vote will echo for a generation and I fear that social cohesion will further fracture in the years ahead. This issue will be a running sore for the peoples of this nation for the foreseeable, which has been caused, or at the very least hugely accentuated, by this referendum.

The United Kingdom, or what remains of it, will be a nation ill at ease with itself for the next decade and beyond. Anyone who cannot see this, is hopelessly deluded.

Dave gambled on this, like he did with the Scottish referendum and lost. I'm afraid his legacy will be as toxic as Blair's with far greater long term damage.

 

[hilts]

Just think Jermain Jena's in 20 years and you've got a decent image of him.

Just read up on him, they won't be replacing like for like in terms of political views

 

[daztrueblue91]

That's possibly the politest and most long winded way imaginable of saying brexiters are thick and not worthy of having a vote. Well done.

You clearly didn't read the post properly because I also questioned people who voted remain as well.

I was trying to focus on the supposed reasons for voting rather than the outcome itself.

 

[malg]

I never said anything about removing anyone's right to vote.

Just that if there are things that can be done to make people more aware of voting then surely it would be in Britain's best interests to do so.

Some people will just never be interested. I wouldn't trust teachers to teach politics either - unless it was just about how Parliament works, and how our democracy works. If it was about political parties, I wouldn't allow a teacher within a thousand miles of it.

 

[whp.blue]

I never said anything about removing anyone's right to vote.

Just that if there are things that can be done to make people more aware of voting then surely it would be in Britain's best interests to do so.

Oh sorry but I have had enough over the last couple of days with bitter remainers hitting out at peoples ability to vote and as I have said if a person wants to stick a pin in a ballot paper that is their right