Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

malg said:
Some people will just never be interested. I wouldn't trust teachers to teach politics either - unless it was just about how Parliament works, and how our democracy works. If it was about political parties, I wouldn't allow a teacher within a thousand miles of it.
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They already do teach politics at GCSE, AFAIK. It's just not very widespread. I'd assume it's more about issues themselves, rather than individual parties' policies.
 
hilts said:
The name doesn't ring a bell, what does holds quite left wing views mean? The grass roots wanted a different direction, anti new labour if you like, someone who is a bit of a leftie will soon be poked into coming around believe me. When was the last time we had a government that roughly followed the beliefs of Corbyn or labours members?
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Ex BBC jounalist and army reservist who served a tour in Afghanistan and who was elected MP for Norwich Suoth in last election, Shadow Minister (Energy and Climate Change) strong Corbyn supporter and when elected called new labour dead and burried.

Voting habbits in link below, I would say he is pretty left wing, maybe not entirely in tune with everything Corbyn advocates, but he is far removed from the progress side of the party that the membership have rejected by voting Corbyn in

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25356/clive_lewis/norwich_south/votes
 
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adrianr said:
I'd love to know too. I actually like a lot of Corbyn's policies and of all the party leaders we're probably the closest aligned, but what good is that if the man is un-electable? I'm happy to sacrifice some points in order to further others, most importantly to give this country back a strong opposition which I believe is crucial to the day to day function of any democracy. We need accountability, and no matter how many of the mans views I agree with I don't see how Corbyn possibly provides that.

As far fetched as the idea seems now, I'm wondering if the only hope lay in this left-Tory right-Labour splinter party idea.
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I think you may be right, but I wonder what the Liberals are up to and whether they will be able to reinvent themselves as a centrist party. Either the Liberals or the Labour Party could learn a lot from the way the SNP have positioned themselves as a left of centre party but with a pragmatic approach to business through sheer pragmatism they have achieved for the last ten years what the Scottish system was designed to prevent, in one party winning power.
 
whp.blue said:
Oh sorry but I have had enough over the last couple of days with bitter remainers hitting out at peoples ability to vote and as I have said if a person wants to stick a pin in a ballot paper that is their right
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If you have had enough then log off or simply don't respond.

Nothing in my post is bitter in the slightest and the fact that you are trying to suggest that it is means that you are either looking for an argument or shooting down my opinion, which is ironically what you're accusing me of doing to Brexit voters.

If you don't think that kids should be educated on the matter then fair enough that's your view and you are entitled to it. However, in a curriculum which includes RE and Business then surely it could be incorporated that kids could learn a bit about politics too. It might even inspire people to vote in the future instead of not bothering.
 
Paulpowersleftfoot said:
If the lib dems hadn't committed political suicide by jumping into bed with the tories they would've been superbly placed to win an election right now
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Great post and very true. They'd be able to say they were the attractive alternative to UKIP and they would hoover up many remain voters. Labour are dead in Scotland and dying a very slow painful death in their Norhern heartlands. UKIP will be rebranded over the summer and the new party spearheaded by Farage is going to obliterate the Labour vote in the old industrial areas. Blair opening up the borders has created the beast that is UKIP and the sneering Corbynistas in metroville have fed it.
 
daztrueblue91 said:
If you have had enough then log off or simply don't respond.

Nothing in my post is bitter in the slightest and the fact that you are trying to suggest that it is means that you are either looking for an argument or shooting down my opinion, which is ironically what you're accusing me of doing to Brexit voters.

If you don't think that kids should be educated on the matter then fair enough that's your view and you are entitled to it. However, in a curriculum which includes RE and Business then surely it could be incorporated that kids could learn a bit about politics too. It might even inspire people to vote in the future instead of not bothering.
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Or at least understanding what they are voting for...And i'm not picking on kids as I think they are as informed or better informed that their elders. Starting the education early might result in a more informed vote in 20, 30, 40 years time.
 
Benarbia_is_god said:
Great post and very true. They'd be able to say they were the attractive alternative to UKIP and they would hoover up many remain voters. Labour are dead in Scotland and dying a very slow painful death in their Norhern heartlands. UKIP will be rebranded over the summer and the new party spearheaded by Farage is going to obliterate the Labour vote in the old industrial areas. Blair opening up the borders has created the beast that is UKIP and the sneering Corbynistas in metroville have fed it.
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Nail on the head both of you, we could have had the two David's, Paddy Pantsdown and co returning like prodigal sons in their twilight years but the party is as dead as a Dodo.
 
philiph20 said:
Nail on the head both of you, we could have had the two David's, Paddy Pantsdown and co returning like prodigal sons in their twilight years but the party is as dead as a Dodo.
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It's sad because before 2010 they had a fantastic long term strategy that was working and would have seen them grow into a party capable of government. By targeting students they had a great base of highly educated individuals who after they graduate will spread all around the country. They shat on that strategy when the fucked the students over. They are seen as the most europhile party and they barely registered in the EU referendum such is the nature of their decline.

Let's pretend the Lib Dems didn't go into coalition. Right now their hand would be incredibly strong, they could tell the 48% that the other two parties let them down and are on the decline and that they are the real alternative to UKIP and Farage. They'd never be so strong.

Tories split
Labour ineffective and up the creek without a paddle everywhere outside of London
Lib Dems dead in the water
UKIP? Who knows what Farage will do next
Greens laughable and not taken seriously by anyone
Plaid Cymru are so out of touch with the Welsh people it's painful to see them claim they are the party of Wales

Only the SNP are in a good place right now, this last few years have changed politics in the UK forever.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Or at least understanding what they are voting for...And i'm not picking on kids as I think they are as informed or better informed that their elders. Starting the education early might result in a more informed vote in 20, 30, 40 years time.
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One of he consequences of 16 yr olds being given the vote in Scotland has been a bigger engagement in politics and the choices in the 16 yr olds still at school discussing with friends and talking about their choices which teachers and parents and actually watching the news programmes.. My children and friends are better informed than I remember being as I only heard my parents talk politics and they always agreed.
 
What do shadow cabinet people do? Just slag off the people actually doing the real job?
 
Benarbia_is_god said:
It's sad because before 2010 they had a fantastic long term strategy that was working and would have seen them grow into a party capable of government. By targeting students they had a great base of highly educated individuals who after they graduate will spread all around the country. They shat on that strategy when the fucked the students over. They are seen as the most europhile party and they barely registered in the EU referendum such is the nature of their decline.

Let's pretend the Lib Dems didn't go into coalition. Right now their hand would be incredibly strong, they could tell the 48% that the other two parties let them down and are on the decline and that they are the real alternative to UKIP and Farage. They'd never be so strong.

Tories split
Labour ineffective and up the creek without a paddle everywhere outside of London
Lib Dems dead in the water
UKIP? Who knows what Farage will do next
Greens laughable and not taken seriously by anyone
Plaid Cymru are so out of touch with the Welsh people it's painful to see them claim they are the party of Wales

Only the SNP are in a good place right now, this last few years have changed politics in the UK forever.
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The problem is that in 2010 the Lib Dems were damned whatever they did

1) Join with the Tories - damned for that ( as seen)
2) Join with Labour - damned for that.
3) Do nothing - be damned for not making a decision.
 
The Labour party was infiltrated by right/centre politicians long ago. With the Tories in disarray anyone who thinks this en masse walk-out has not been orchestrated to divert attention needs to pay more attention. When is the Chilcot report out ? Next week you say ? Corbyn will press ahead with a call for Tony Blair to face war crimes. Corbyn as PM will regulate the press and render Murdoch powerless. He will end the infinite funding of arms dealers. He is the establishments worst fucking nightmare and if all else fails to remove him as a threat to their wealth, expect assassination attempts.
 
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