Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

gordondaviesmoustache said:
The vote is the right outcome, legally and morally, but it's fucked the Labour party, although they were pretty fucked whatever the outcome imo.

Really hoping now for a split from the moderate wings of the two main parties to form some sort of central alliance.
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Between the out-for-themselves Blairite wing and the sandal wearing mung bean bothering placard wavers, the middle bit of Labour's usual voters have already moved to another party, so they don't need to start a new one.
 
Chancy Termites said:
Between the out-for-themselves Blairite wing and the sandal wearing mung bean bothering placard wavers, the middle bit of Labour's usual voters have already moved to another party, so they don't need to start a new one.
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Those whose votes have migrated from Labour to UKIP were primarily socially right-wing and illiberal, so I don't reckon a socially centrist and liberal political party was ever going to appeal to those voters - and nor would it ever seek to, imo. In terms of voting numbers, it would be that putative new party's most significant achilles heel: its inability to connect with the socially conservative working class, who are significant in number, and who previously (somewhat habitually) voted Labour, but that isn't sufficient reason to embrace the ineffectual and spineless defeatism that your post suggests.
 
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That McTernan guy is the reason why Corbyn and Labour haven't got a chance. He is obviously a voice from a part of the Labour Party that has never supported Corbyn and never will - they've been plotting against him since he got the job. McTernan fella is bitter byond belief. His comments about fighting every day against Corbyn are dangerous, and undemocratic. What a ****.

Oh, I watched Sunday Politics last night with Angela Eagle, and she does not speak well. I'd be stunned if she could lead the party - she has fuck all about her. Labour needs someone to stand against Corbyn if they want him out, and I heard this morning that yer man Owen Smith will announce he's standing. Should be interesting.
 
Owen Smith standing sky are saying is deffinate, this could split votes for eagle, as any corbyn waiverers would probably move to him, Eagle is not coming across well at all, she won't answer what her different stance is to jezza, just that she is a better leader, also her voting record is on a par with liam fox.

I said it before on here the wellfare bill abstentions and not voting against it was the straw that broke the camels back for the membership, and all MPs that voted for it no longer have a lot of the members trust.
If burnham or cooper had voted against that bill, one of them would have won last time, but that vote (or lack of it) really pushed the membership to Corbyn.
 
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Why are there so many on here saying corbyn is unelectable? Yet on the should there be another GE,they say "you vote for the party,not the individual"
 
maccadon said:
Why are there so many on here saying corbyn is unelectable? Yet on the should there be another GE,they say "you vote for the party,not the individual"
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He's not as unelectable as the polls suggest, in fact the day of thr ref labour were 34-33 ahead of the cons. This 8 point dip is down to the idiots in the coup turning people off.

From day 1 the media including more left of centre ones have bashed him along with his own party, maybe if he had been backed from the start, the soft left ideas he is trying to get across would resonate with a lot, Miliband had similar from the press but not as vitriol.

The PLP are so scared to be sofr left wing after 20 years of being bullied by the right of the party, that they have allowed hard left to get back in. If the centre leftist had backed corbyn from the begining and ignored twats like hunt, and bradshaw, then the party could have repaired itself and maybe jezza would have stepped aside.

All the PLP have to do is look across the chamber and take note, the tories were fueding a week ago, one side won out and they all fall back into line despite their differences, why? because for them power comes before personal beliefs and until labour stop being so stubborn on all branches of the party about whats right they will lose elections.
 
maccadon said:
Why are there so many on here saying corbyn is unelectable? Yet on the should there be another GE,they say "you vote for the party,not the individual"
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If Corbyn remains leader. and a GE was called, he would be completely and utterly demolished on two issues:-
He is a pacifist, CND supporter, who would remove this country's nuclear deterrent, a sure and certain vote loser.
He supports completely unrestricted immigration, everyone knows, as has been recently proved, what the electorate thinks of that.

There are many more issues he believes in that are at odds with reality, and would be challenged by the Tories, during any campaign, but these two alone
are enough to see Labour wiped out at a General election. The hard left would ensure that Labour is history.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
If Corbyn remains leader. and a GE was called, he would be completely and utterly demolished on two issues:-
He is a pacifist, CND supporter, who would remove this country's nuclear deterrent, a sure and certain vote loser.
He supports completely unrestricted immigration, everyone knows, as has been recently proved, what the electorate thinks of that.

There are many more issues he believes in that are at odds with reality, and would be challenged by the Tories, during any campaign, but these two alone
are enough to see Labour wiped out at a General election. The hard left would ensure that Labour is history.
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Doesn't really answer my question.
 
maccadon said:
Doesn't really answer my question.
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Well,I believe the reasons I gave make Corbyn unelectable, I'm not one who believes folk vote solely for a party irrespective of it's leader,
the leader is the party's mouthpiece, maybe if he encompassed many of Labour's core demographic's values, ie; socially conservative working class,
as did Blair, who won three times on the trot, the party would be in good health; he doesn't, and now, sadly it's dying.
 
urban genie said:
He's not as unelectable as the polls suggest, in fact the day of thr ref labour were 34-33 ahead of the cons. This 8 point dip is down to the idiots in the coup turning people off.
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The only elections he's been leader of the party, which was this year's local elections, their performance was distinctly unimpressive. They lost a council overall and in my area they lost one seat in the neighbouring ward and only just clung on in my ward.
 
maccadon said:
Why are there so many on here saying corbyn is unelectable? Yet on the should there be another GE,they say "you vote for the party,not the individual"
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The trouble is that the part in quote marks isn't really accurate.

You vote for your MP, knowing who is the party leader and thus prospective PM, if that party comes out on top.
Who that leader is may persuade unaligned voters to vote for/against.

What you are not voting for is any form of guarantee that that leader won't change before the next GE.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
The only elections he's been leader of the party, which was this year's local elections, their performance was distinctly unimpressive. They lost a council overall and in my area they lost one seat in the neighbouring ward and only just clung on in my ward.
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but had the largest inclease in the vite share overall in england, it can be looked at in many ways depending on how you want it to be viewed, the coup lot say his poor showing un the refendum was the catylist yet 63% of labour voters voted remain and the youth vote was up, the 2 requirements they set him pre brexit was met I went to the remain rally he held in manchester, Lucy powel and other mancunian MP's never turned up so to say he didn't do enough is bollocks, every narrative set has been on his detractors terms and he is still here, I have no idea if he could win a GE, but he has from the start been undermined in putting why he should to the country, mainly by his own MP's, they are the one who will lose labour seats more.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
The trouble is that the part in quote marks isn't really accurate.

You vote for your MP, knowing who is the party leader and thus prospective PM, if that party comes out on top.
Who that leader is may persuade unaligned voters to vote for/against.

What you are not voting for is any form of guarantee that that leader won't change before the next GE.
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The party leader isn't corbyn in labour party up here.it's kesia dugdale.so yeah it is true.you vote the party not leader.
 
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