Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

stonerblue said:
A year down the line your MP has decided to pursue a course of action directly opposite to the one you want. Your MP is no longer representing you, right?
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That's real life, no MP. no party is going to do everything I agree with. In real life MPs have to make deals, see the bigger picture and compromise their own ideals sometimes. Nobody can please everybody all the time. So we vote on what we think on balance is the best option, then assess again after 5 years, on balance.
The members throwing out mps in a strop helps nobody if the candidates and leader can't win an election, what's the point of a political party, if not to get into government and help as many as possible ?
When it boils down to it, the floating voter, or wavering voter like me, or first time voters like my children are the ones that need to be won over to win an election, if members can't see that then good luck with years in opposition. If the Labour hasn't learned from the eighties and 4 consecutive Tory governments, there's no hope for it.
 
Jordan CTID said:
Written an article about how May is the best of a very bad bunch.

Football theme in there as well as have likened it to Allardyce's potential appointment.

https://elgottcowley.wordpress.com/...-be-the-best-of-a-very-bad-bunch-for-england/

Controversial opinions in there so expecting plenty of disagreement.

Feedback and constructive criticism appreciated.

Cheers
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I don't like the 'word' 'pre-planned'. Just think about 'post-planned' for a moment and I think you'll see what I mean.
 
Labour are well and truely fucked by Corbyn.

Let's be honnest he was an abject failure in the EU referendum. So good was he that 50% of people who have voted Labour over the last 5 elections didn't know what he stood for - his fault entirely as it was his choice not to share a platform with other party political leaders. It was such a poor campaign from him too. I really began to believe that he wanted to leave Or he was inept - one or the other. Quite simply he showed zero leadership skills.

Then we have the electability issue.
Swing voters won't touch him with a barge pole - nor will those like me who feel that leaving NATO or indeed getting rid of Nukes will be an unmitigated disaster.(Ditching Nukes worked well for Ukraine didn't it?)

15+ years of Tory government is ahead unless he goes or there can be some sort if realignment on the left/centre ditching the loons and giving the rest of us an alternative.

Very, very sad and really bad news for our country indeed.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
Labour are well and truely fucked by Corbyn.

Let's be honnest he was an abject failure in the EU referendum. So good was he that 50% of people who have voted Labour over the last 5 elections didn't know what he stood for - his fault entirely as it was his choice not to share a platform with other party political leaders. It was such a toss campaign I really doubt he wanted to stay in Or he was inept - one or the other. Quite simply he showed zero leadership skills.

Then we have the electability issue.
Swing voters won't touch him with a barge pole - nor will those like me who feel that leaving NATO or indeed getting rid of Nukes (worked well for Ukraine didn't it?) will be an unmitigated disaster.

15+ years of Tory government is ahead unless he goes or thete can be some sort if realignment on the left ditching the loons.

Very, very sad and really bad news for our country indeed.
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63% of Labour voters voted ramain, and out of labour people to even hold a rally on the referendum in manchester he turned up to speak, along with Tony Lloyd and salfords mp, never saw lucy Powel once campaigning so he cannot be critisised for not trying despite the coup members rhetoric.

Nato, he's said we should stay in as it's the obvious will of the people and nukes, well we signed the agreement to get rid with everybody else so someone has to do it first, (there are better options than a costly trident system also like the duel missle system). not saying I agree but understand the point and I am open to the idea if a viable option is on the table.

On electability, none of the players in this leadrship contest are electable and the right of the party are too out of touch to win power again just as much as the far left

Basically labour are either a split or a 10yr rebuild away from power
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
You are correct although you've out left one important part, namely the net reduction in the number of overall seats between these two factions after the next general election, under FPTP, as the left of centre votes gets split.
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The left of centre, outside of Scotland, are pretty much screwed as far as the next election is concerned. There just isn't a scenario that I can see that will allow Labour to fight the election as a unified party with widespread support for its manifesto. Its really a case of how do they best recover in the long term from the present calamity.
 
cibaman said:
The left of centre, outside of Scotland, are pretty much screwed as far as the next election is concerned. There just isn't a scenario that I can see that will allow Labour to fight the election as a unified party with widespread support for its manifesto. Its really a case of how do they best recover in the long term from the present calamity.
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This is an important point. Without Scotland Labour cant hope to win an election. Scotland having an alternative home for the left of centre voter means Labour need a very good leader or a SNP meltdown to regain those votes. With no sign of either happening the SNP with their pragmatic left of centre Policies will continue to dominate the Labour target votes. They are being squeezed out with Sturgeon on one side and a very effective Ruth Davidson on the other.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I don't think many would have an issue with an MP like that being deselected. But there could be a hard-working MP or councillor, who devotes his or her self to sorting out the problems of their constituents, who does get deselected because he doesn't follow a particular doctrine or dares to vote against an unpopular leader.
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They are the people who should serve as MP's a natural progression in my mind.

It would be intresting to find it how many of those labour rebels come from that background and would wager it's a low percentage as Blair, then Brown had a policy of parachuting loyalist progress members into what were safe northern seats.

The Brexit vote shows they aren't that safe anymore. As someone else has pointed out how many of those MP's will lose their seats due to major boundary changes?
 
well the trident debate was pointless except for the fuckwits in labour to give the tories exactly what they wanted by using it to slag corbyn. they should have let him make his speach then voted as they wanted, one after the other getting up to have a pop played into tory hands, morons.
 
kas_tippler said:
Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party, is voting against the Labour Party manifesto for Trident. Work that one out.
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technically the manifesto was for the last election, and the stance is under debate because of a leadership change conference will decide the new one. As with all PLP comments they are just waffle to suit their agenda, a defence review is on so a free vote makes sense, in fact a free vote on issues of conscience should be a parliament mandate acrosss the board imho, vote for what you believe not what you are told to, or what is the point in having a mind of your own.
 
Tricky one. By and large, you'd want someone to vote with their conscience. On the other hand, on something as vitally important as the nuclear deterrent, how can the public vote for a government with a random policy?

Not my problem locally, though, as Lab came fourth at the General Election with just 10% of the vote. And that's with a shit sitting Tory MP.

Not sure if people realise how irrelevant Labour are in great swathes of the country.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
aka: over half the electorate. Good luck with that one, comrade!
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Time will tell, but when people like "leadership candidate" Owen Smith are stating that "austerity is right" is shows just how out of touch with a very large portion of the people (5 point Labour lead in the last poll, and that's in a party at war with itself, fear what we will become when we unite behind Corbyn)
 
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