Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

law74 said:
Time will tell, but when people like "leadership candidate" Owen Smith are stating that "austerity is right" is shows just how out of touch with a very large portion of the people (5 point Labour lead in the last poll, and that's in a party at war with itself, fear what we will become when we unite behind Corbyn)
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No one can fault your cheery optimism, mate! :-)
 
law74 said:
Time will tell, but when people like "leadership candidate" Owen Smith are stating that "austerity is right" is shows just how out of touch with a very large portion of the people (5 point Labour lead in the last poll, and that's in a party at war with itself, fear what we will become when we unite behind Corbyn)
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What poll was that mate? I saw the ICM poll on Sunday, had the Tories with a 10 point lead, it was Con 39 Lab 29 LD 9 UKIP 14 not that polls mean anything, as Len has proved in the last couple of elections.
 
Len Rum said:
Not quite the last couple of elections mate.
2015 and 1992 actually ( we're alright, we're alright!).
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Never trust a poll, or doubt the ability of some to vote Tory when they get in the booth on election day.

I think the poll i quoted above has a big new leader bounce in it (Even Major and Brown got 10 point bumps upon becoming leader for their respective parties) however the Tories were already ahead and May has just got a 5 point bump to stretch their lead. Corbynistas will continue to put their fingers in their ears and say la la la la la, then pretend he is going to somehow reverse the situation in Scotland and reverse the trend of the party, all while he cant fill all of the shadow cabinet posts because of lack of support from the PLP.
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
What poll was that mate? I saw the ICM poll on Sunday, had the Tories with a 10 point lead, it was Con 39 Lab 29 LD 9 UKIP 14 not that polls mean anything, as Len has proved in the last couple of elections.
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Think it must have been in the Salford Labour club' on a karaoke night
 
sir baconface said:
Tricky one. By and large, you'd want someone to vote with their conscience. On the other hand, on something as vitally important as the nuclear deterrent, how can the public vote for a government with a random policy?

Not my problem locally, though, as Lab came fourth at the General Election with just 10% of the vote. And that's with a shit sitting Tory MP.

Not sure if people realise how irrelevant Labour are in great swathes of the country.
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The thing is though on trident in the future is gonna be obsolete as a deterent and this seems just a waste when better more advanced options are available. Also we have have a capable anti-ballistic system in the Aster missiles which can take down a nuke , these are also being techincally improved to fit modern times.
The brimstone missiles system we are using in syria is considered one of the best and some anylists believe this can be addapted to fit nuclear warheads delivered by land or air. Cheaper more advanced options are available and I don't see the point of spending 250b on an old system for a different era of warfare that some say can be hacked into in this digital age. It's like Mays comments if russia nuked us we can nuke them back in revenge used as a reason is just posturing, as you cannot enjoy revenge if we are all dead.

As for labour, after they got in late 90's and then sat on their lorrals while the country changed over 20 years and they have not adapted to what their core support or marginals need them to be.This now makes they seem redundant, when the core principals of the party are still ones that the country needs to have as an option, the ones living in 97 cannot get past what won power then might not now. Basically they are as you say irrelevant for many at present.
 
urban genie said:
As for labour, after they got in late 90's and then sat on their lorrals while the country changed over 20 years and they have not adapted to what their core support or marginals need them to be.This now makes they seem redundant, when the core principals of the party are still ones that the country needs to have as an option, the ones living in 97 cannot get past what won power then might not now. Basically they are as you say irrelevant for many at present.
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I guess I'm musing on how Labour can simultaneously go back to their roots AND appeal to middle England. It seems an impossible task. And if they split, aren't they equally fcuked?
 
sir baconface said:
I guess I'm musing on how Labour can simultaneously go back to their roots AND appeal to middle England. It seems an impossible task. And if they split, aren't they equally fcuked?
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When Corbyn was elected as leader it was claimed that the aim was to target the 34% who hadn't voted in the 2015 election, especially the young voters. So that they didn't need middle England. There was talk of a massive registration campaign. If that was ever going to happen it would seem most likely to succeed in the immediate aftermath of his election, building on "Corbyn mania". It seems to have been a damp squib.
 
sir baconface said:
I guess I'm musing on how Labour can simultaneously go back to their roots AND appeal to middle England. It seems an impossible task. And if they split, aren't they equally fcuked?
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Straight forward choice power or principles

Take centre left (Blairite) chance of power
Take Corbyns route left wing principles no chance of power
 
Andrea Eagle dropped out. Not surprised, she's shite.
 
cibaman said:
When Corbyn was elected as leader it was claimed that the aim was to target the 34% who hadn't voted in the 2015 election, especially the young voters. So that they didn't need middle England. There was talk of a massive registration campaign. If that was ever going to happen it would seem most likely to succeed in the immediate aftermath of his election, building on "Corbyn mania". It seems to have been a damp squib.
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Thats assumes most of those that don't vote are just waiting to be inspired by some great leader. In reality, most of those that I come across that don't vote, just cant be arsed, or come out with the same old line'there are all the same, just in it for themselves ' . When actually they havent bothered listening to anything anybody has said.
Chances are you'd be lucky if a lot of non voters could name more than a couple of cabinet ministers never mind whose in the opposition team.
 
sir baconface said:
Reading between the lines, both candidates were shite and simply fulfilled the "anyone but Corbyn" criterion.

WTF does nobody with substance step forward? Do they want to remain in the wilderness?
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We won't remain in the wilderness, we'll move forward with Corbyn !
 
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