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Again, with India coming up I don't see the point in dropping Ali and at the same time it will be interesting to see how he goes at 4/5 to see if he can play there in India. If he is good enough to bat at 4 or 5 then England are set for the immediate future as having three frontline bowlers batting in the top 8 does wonders for the balance of the side. Even if Ali bats at 7 with Bairstow at 6 and Stokes at 5 will work very well in India.

I know what you mean about Vince. It's unfortunate for him that there won't be an England second innings because he might have just ran out of chances for now.
 
jay_mcfc said:
Again, with India coming up I don't see the point in dropping Ali and at the same time it will be interesting to see how he goes at 4/5 to see if he can play there in India. If he is good enough to bat at 4 or 5 then England are set for the immediate future as having three frontline bowlers batting in the top 8 does wonders for the balance of the side. Even if Ali bats at 7 with Bairstow at 6 and Stokes at 5 will work very well in India.

I know what you mean about Vince. It's unfortunate for him that there won't be an England second innings because he might have just ran out of chances for now.
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Why play 2 spinners if they wont get the overs though, we need to win this series before turning attention to India. If its overcast they wont get a bowl with 4 seamers to go to. Unless you think Ali is a better bet with the bat than Vince/Ballance, which England obviously dont with him coming in at 8 at the moment. On recent form Woakes has looked better than Ali with the bat. Ali will have a role to play in India, dropping him for the next test isnt the end of the world. England wont drop any of the 4 seamers at Edgbaston, in India its going to be interesting as 4 seamers is probably 2 too many. Such a shame Monty is messed up, Mumbai he bowled the Indians out last time, the speed he bowls, suits that pitch perfectly. Swann on a TMS thing they did on spin bowling in England said he thinks England should select him regardless, just to play mind games with the Indians so they will adjust the pitch!!

Hales is a concern, it seems its one step forward, 2 steps back in test cricket, at least he wasnt out hanging his bat out this test, as good as the ball was, there was a shocking lack of foot movement from him.
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
Why play 2 spinners if they wont get the overs though, we need to win this series before turning attention to India. If its overcast they wont get a bowl with 4 seamers to go to. Unless you think Ali is a better bet with the bat than Vince/Ballance, which England obviously dont with him coming in at 8 at the moment. On recent form Woakes has looked better than Ali with the bat. Ali will have a role to play in India, dropping him for the next test isnt the end of the world. England wont drop any of the 4 seamers at Edgbaston, in India its going to be interesting as 4 seamers is probably 2 too many. Such a shame Monty is messed up, Mumbai he bowled the Indians out last time, the speed he bowls, suits that pitch perfectly. Swann on a TMS thing they did on spin bowling in England said he thinks England should select him regardless, just to play mind games with the Indians so they will adjust the pitch!!

Hales is a concern, it seems its one step forward, 2 steps back in test cricket, at least he wasnt out hanging his bat out this test, as good as the ball was, there was a shocking lack of foot movement from him.
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Ali is a difficult one because it's not just a case of whether or not he's better than Vince or Ballance. England rate him and they rate him as a batsman, hence the different positions he's held. The problem with Ali in the side is the balance of the team overall. Woakes has solved that problem, and the future problem in India by batting and bowling so well. England can play 4 seamers in India because it doesn't take away from the balance of the team. Nor does it hurt them on those long hot days in the field to be able to cap their seamers at 10-15 overs per day.

It's all about opinions I guess. I would give Ali the number 5 spot and play two spinners at Edgbaston but there are 2/3 different ways England could go and none of them would be the wrong one as such. Unless they play Finn or Ball ;)
 
jay_mcfc said:
Ali is a difficult one because it's not just a case of whether or not he's better than Vince or Ballance. England rate him and they rate him as a batsman, hence the different positions he's held. The problem with Ali in the side is the balance of the team overall. Woakes has solved that problem, and the future problem in India by batting and bowling so well. England can play 4 seamers in India because it doesn't take away from the balance of the team. Nor does it hurt them on those long hot days in the field to be able to cap their seamers at 10-15 overs per day.

It's all about opinions I guess. I would give Ali the number 5 spot and play two spinners at Edgbaston but there are 2/3 different ways England could go and none of them would be the wrong one as such. Unless they play Finn or Ball ;)
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Conditions dictate everything in cricket, a point Nasser has just made, so for me its all about what Edgbaston will be like, if its green you arent playing 2 spinners, you are playing Ali as a batsman, because as this test is showing, with Ali not bowling yet, Rashid isnt going to get overs unless conditions dictate. I dont think Ali has done enough to be picked as a batsman alone.

4 seamers bowling 10-15 overs, if we are intending on bowling 50-60 overs of seam in Mumbai then we may as well not bother going, we will be looking to bowl 25-30 overs of seam maximum, so absolutely no need for 4 seamers. There is no point picking players because of what they have done if they are going to offer nothing to the match, horses for courses. No way would I go in with 4 seamers, like in England on a green top with 2 spinners, they wont get the overs and if they do they will be largely ineffective.
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
Like I said candy from a... oh.... errr
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;)

BTW I think you're splitting hairs a little on the 4 seamers in India. Two of them are Broad and Anderson who are guaranteed to play. The other two, Stokes and Woakes are gonna play after this series too. They don't negatively affect the batting nor the balance of the team so there is no need to not play them. Mumbai turns sideways so you might be looking at only 30-40 overs of seam per day but not every ground over there turns so much. Getting Rashid, Moeen, Stokes and Woakes into this team in India is a piece of piss. This is where not having Bell/KP etc in the middle order actually helps the team to make this kind of decision.
 
jay_mcfc said:
;)

BTW I think you're splitting hairs a little on the 4 seamers in India. Two of them are Broad and Anderson who are guaranteed to play. The other two, Stokes and Woakes are gonna play after this series too. They don't negatively affect the batting nor the balance of the team so there is no need to not play them. Mumbai turns sideways so you might be looking at only 30-40 overs of seam per day but not every ground over there turns so much. Getting Rashid, Moeen, Stokes and Woakes into this team in India is a piece of piss. This is where not having Bell/KP etc in the middle order actually helps the team to make this kind of decision.
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No my point is I wouldnt play Anderson and Broad in India, I'd be looking at a third spin option. There is no way India are going to produce a pitch with anything for our seamers.
 
This where Ali is good against India and Pakistan, they just think they can hit a 6 against him every ball and eventually they undo themselves.
 
Can a cricket expert explain to me why they are not enforcing the follow on ? They have enough bowlers to cover
any tiredness. Surely there is a risk of wasting time, should the weather change.
 
jay_mcfc said:
Aha, interesting. And which one of Broad or Anderson wouldn't you play? Or would they take turns? And who's the other spinner, Monty?
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Again, I would assess the pitch and choose between them, fuck reputations. I remember we have played 3 spinners in the past, with Craig White opening the bowling with 1 seamer. Again on the TMS spin thing I heard, Swann said Broad would have a big grin on his face some days in India in the morning, as he knew he would bowl 5 or 6 overs and go and change his bowling boots because he knew he'd do nothing until the new ball. Getting Monty rehabilitated and playing the tail end of the summer would be good, failing that there are a number of young spinners about, Parkinson, Poysden or the lad at Surrey who's name escapes me at the moment.
 
A few reasons - Rest the bowlers a little. Don't risk Pakistan getting 500 and having Yasir bowling at us on the last day. Giving Vince another chance to get some runs. Running the Pakistani's into the ground and demoralising them.
 
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
Can a cricket expert explain to me why they are not enforcing the follow on ? They have enough bowlers to cover
any tiredness. Surely there is a risk of wasting time, should the weather change.
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cleavers said:
WTF is Cook doing ? 391 ahead and batting again, in Manchester. Could have bowled them out before the end of today.
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Not calling myself an expert at all, but I cant see why he's batting, with the weather the way it is, its fucking stupid if you ask me.
 
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