Donald Trump

[aguero93:20]

Whatever you think about Drumpf, you have to respect Phil's battling game on this thread.

It's his own personal great siege of Malta.

 

[Vic]

Cold light of evening: I'm not sure I believe the allegations. But his denials mean nothing as he's a liar - perhaps most of what he says isn't true. "I'm a germophobe" - grabbing genitals is OK but not shaking hands.

Normally, I'd want to be fair to someone accused of immoral behaviour (and the risk of compromise in public office) but in his case I see no need to be fair. Indeed, I can't recall ever before thinking "the ends justify the means".

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Whatever you think about Drumpf, you have to respect Phil's battling game on this thread.

No you really don't. Political views even if they aren't expressed objectively are one thing; deriving joy out of others' fears and worries while comfortably ensconced outside of America as a winning campaign's bandwagoning toadie hanger-on is quite another.

 

[super_city_si]

All it's going to take is Kim Jong Un to laugh at trumps tiny hands and bingo! WW3

 

[andyhinch]

It's his own personal great siege of Malta.

Am I the only one that enjoyed his objectivity ?

 

[SWP's back]

He's center when you are talking about the UK, but he's the most liberal President of my lifetime. I'm a conservative libertarian. I believe that on the whole the federal government has two responsibilities. Protect (not take care of) its citizenry and to mediate disagreements between states. So yes, I'm for a strong military, but I don't believe in enforcing our will around the world. Protect our boarders. I support a strong police force, fire department, etc. I believe we have pretty much everything wrong. Right now the Federal tax rate I pay is nearly 30% and I pay about 4% to the state of Missouri. In my view, those should be swapped. The states should be the ones taxing more and using that money to build roads, etc. If the state wants to provide benefits, so be it, but it should not be in the purview of the federal government. That way if I disagree with how things are going, I can move to a different state that has a different approach if I choose. As is, there is damn little difference between Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Arizona, etc.

To go down your list, pro-life. My personal faith would not make it easy to ask my wife to get an abortion or go along with it if she wanted to get one. Thankfully, that is something that will never be a problem for me personally. I do not support Row V Wade, but not because it makes abortions legal, but it should be a state by state basis item. If Wyoming wants to make it illegal, they should have that right as long as it is supported by the citizens of that state if California wants it legal, then go for it. Essentially, I have my personal beliefs, but I'm not going to try to impose them on others. Pro-death penalty - sure. Some people do things so abhorrent that their lives should be forfeit. Taxes - Obviously I'm anti-taxes. I don't think the government does many things well. They are horrible with my money on the whole, why would I want them to have more of it? As far as poor people getting affordable healthcare, obviously, I want people to be able to see a doctor. However when I was a kid (I'm 46 now), if I was sick, I went to see the doctor in a neighboring town as my town didn't have one. Doctors visit was $5 and he had drugs in his office that we could get instead of going to a pharmacy. A normal visit would cost under $10 including medication. That wasn't THAT long ago. Now to go see my family doctor, it is $250 just to walk in the door. Why? It is a very complex system and the cost of paperwork and regulations makes it so that my doctor (who has a lot of the same beliefs that I do) has a break even number of over $200 per patient. It is stupid. I've stated on here before, I grew up below the poverty line in a tiny town in Oklahoma. My mother raised two sons by herself on not much of a paycheck. Not once did she go on any social programs. She was too proud for that. I'm sure if my brother or I had some affliction, she would have done what she had to, but thankfully we were and still are both very healthy. But she instilled a very independent spirit in us. I've worked my ass off to try to get ahead. I didn't get grants to pay for school. I worked for it. So when it comes to helping the poor, I am a bit harder than most and I probably sound like a monster to many of you. But dammit, help yourself. If you have to pick up aluminum cans to make enough money to buy a few gallons of gas, then do that. I know I did and if I didn't have enough money to drive back and forth from home to school, I'd sleep in my car in the school parking lot. I personally would rather not pay into social security. The return on my money is horrible. If the money I've put into SS was put into an IRA instead, I'd almost be able to retire now. But I'm a saver. I've put away at least 10% of every paycheck I've ever earned since I got out of school. I bought my house 21 years ago, paid it off 4 or 5 years ago. I drive my cars until they die. etc. These all go back to my upbringing. I'm nothing special. If I can do it, anybody can. There is no reason that most people can't take care of themselves.

Now with that said, I have no problems with so called hand-up programs. If a person has a bad run of luck and needs a boost to get back going and independent, I'm all for it. But paying somebody that is capable of work, year on year simply because they don't make an arbitrarily set amount of money a year is not a way to help them over the long haul you build lifelong poor dependents on the state. If a person has a true disability, then by all means, get them the care they need to have a basic quality of life.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts and political leanings.

I can't say I agree with many of them but you're entitled to them and I can understand why you'd not be a fan of Obama.

 

[SWP's back]

She received 2m votes more than KGB SuperMole Trump.

Wasn't it 4m in the end?

 

[SWP's back]

People earned it. It should go as they choose.

On this we agree.

People pay tax as they earn it, they pay tax as it grows and paying tax as they bequeath it is a piss take.

I'll receive fuck all when my parents pass away as I fund them in retirement as it is but it's a principle thing for me.

 

[urban genie]

Trumps piss and wind trash talk isn't what bothers me, it's the hawkish, xenophobic, racist, homophobic, mysoginistic, climate denying cunts he is appointing into senior roles, that will ultimately probably get us all killed.

 

[Magicpole]

@BluePhil thinks you're all cunts.

We are. Angry cunts. Pissed off cunts. Bemused cunts more than anything for me. He is a horrible human being. In all of my life I have never met, or have knowledge of any horrible human being doing anything for anybody other than bring misery.

His press conference showed what an inarticulate, snarling idiot he is. Petulant, vindictive, shitting on free speach and freedom of the press.

He invoked Nazi Germany to describe the intel services.

Not yet, not yet, but this madman is the closest thing we have ever seen in the US, or anywhere else thankfully.

Beyond belief.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

He's center when you are talking about the UK, but he's the most liberal President of my lifetime. I'm a conservative libertarian. I believe that on the whole the federal government has two responsibilities. Protect (not take care of) its citizenry and to mediate disagreements between states. So yes, I'm for a strong military, but I don't believe in enforcing our will around the world. Protect our boarders. I support a strong police force, fire department, etc. I believe we have pretty much everything wrong. Right now the Federal tax rate I pay is nearly 30% and I pay about 4% to the state of Missouri. In my view, those should be swapped. The states should be the ones taxing more and using that money to build roads, etc. If the state wants to provide benefits, so be it, but it should not be in the purview of the federal government. That way if I disagree with how things are going, I can move to a different state that has a different approach if I choose. As is, there is damn little difference between Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Arizona, etc.

To go down your list, pro-life. My personal faith would not make it easy to ask my wife to get an abortion or go along with it if she wanted to get one. Thankfully, that is something that will never be a problem for me personally. I do not support Row V Wade, but not because it makes abortions legal, but it should be a state by state basis item. If Wyoming wants to make it illegal, they should have that right as long as it is supported by the citizens of that state if California wants it legal, then go for it. Essentially, I have my personal beliefs, but I'm not going to try to impose them on others. Pro-death penalty - sure. Some people do things so abhorrent that their lives should be forfeit. Taxes - Obviously I'm anti-taxes. I don't think the government does many things well. They are horrible with my money on the whole, why would I want them to have more of it? As far as poor people getting affordable healthcare, obviously, I want people to be able to see a doctor. However when I was a kid (I'm 46 now), if I was sick, I went to see the doctor in a neighboring town as my town didn't have one. Doctors visit was $5 and he had drugs in his office that we could get instead of going to a pharmacy. A normal visit would cost under $10 including medication. That wasn't THAT long ago. Now to go see my family doctor, it is $250 just to walk in the door. Why? It is a very complex system and the cost of paperwork and regulations makes it so that my doctor (who has a lot of the same beliefs that I do) has a break even number of over $200 per patient. It is stupid. I've stated on here before, I grew up below the poverty line in a tiny town in Oklahoma. My mother raised two sons by herself on not much of a paycheck. Not once did she go on any social programs. She was too proud for that. I'm sure if my brother or I had some affliction, she would have done what she had to, but thankfully we were and still are both very healthy. But she instilled a very independent spirit in us. I've worked my ass off to try to get ahead. I didn't get grants to pay for school. I worked for it. So when it comes to helping the poor, I am a bit harder than most and I probably sound like a monster to many of you. But dammit, help yourself. If you have to pick up aluminum cans to make enough money to buy a few gallons of gas, then do that. I know I did and if I didn't have enough money to drive back and forth from home to school, I'd sleep in my car in the school parking lot. I personally would rather not pay into social security. The return on my money is horrible. If the money I've put into SS was put into an IRA instead, I'd almost be able to retire now. But I'm a saver. I've put away at least 10% of every paycheck I've ever earned since I got out of school. I bought my house 21 years ago, paid it off 4 or 5 years ago. I drive my cars until they die. etc. These all go back to my upbringing. I'm nothing special. If I can do it, anybody can. There is no reason that most people can't take care of themselves.

Now with that said, I have no problems with so called hand-up programs. If a person has a bad run of luck and needs a boost to get back going and independent, I'm all for it. But paying somebody that is capable of work, year on year simply because they don't make an arbitrarily set amount of money a year is not a way to help them over the long haul you build lifelong poor dependents on the state. If a person has a true disability, then by all means, get them the care they need to have a basic quality of life.

Anecdotal, bootstraps, conservative bullshit!

Good for you...you had a good upbringing. So, what to do about those that didn't get good parents, or live in a small town, or who have been discriminated against their whole life?

And, while we are on the subject, do you own a home? If so, you pay waaaay more than 4% locally in taxes? Sales tax? Property tax?

No Social Security: So, what do you do with the indigent when they get to 67? Which part of "social" do you not understand?

Pro-Life: So, you are in favor of making it illegal to have an abortion? So, what if my wife or daughter has one? What's the penalty? Jail? Fine? What about rape and incest? How do you propose you can force someone to carry a baby to term? No one I know is "pro-abortion," but almost everyone I know is pro-choice. Btw, why is that Republican cans love to tell women they have to carry a child to term, yet they could give a fuck about the health and welfare of the kid once it is born?! Oh yeah, it's all that cockamamy RELIGION bullshit that is constantly pushed on people in a supposedly "separated" state.

Lastly, you need to read up on your Constitution and what is and is not States rights, and what the Constitution does and does not cover.

Obama may be the best President of your lifetime, but you may not understand that until you are too old to care.

Good luck to us all.

 

[Magicpole]

He's center when you are talking about the UK, but he's the most liberal President of my lifetime. I'm a conservative libertarian. I believe that on the whole the federal government has two responsibilities. Protect (not take care of) its citizenry and to mediate disagreements between states. So yes, I'm for a strong military, but I don't believe in enforcing our will around the world. Protect our boarders. I support a strong police force, fire department, etc. I believe we have pretty much everything wrong. Right now the Federal tax rate I pay is nearly 30% and I pay about 4% to the state of Missouri. In my view, those should be swapped. The states should be the ones taxing more and using that money to build roads, etc. If the state wants to provide benefits, so be it, but it should not be in the purview of the federal government. That way if I disagree with how things are going, I can move to a different state that has a different approach if I choose. As is, there is damn little difference between Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Arizona, etc.

To go down your list, pro-life. My personal faith would not make it easy to ask my wife to get an abortion or go along with it if she wanted to get one. Thankfully, that is something that will never be a problem for me personally. I do not support Row V Wade, but not because it makes abortions legal, but it should be a state by state basis item. If Wyoming wants to make it illegal, they should have that right as long as it is supported by the citizens of that state if California wants it legal, then go for it. Essentially, I have my personal beliefs, but I'm not going to try to impose them on others. Pro-death penalty - sure. Some people do things so abhorrent that their lives should be forfeit. Taxes - Obviously I'm anti-taxes. I don't think the government does many things well. They are horrible with my money on the whole, why would I want them to have more of it? As far as poor people getting affordable healthcare, obviously, I want people to be able to see a doctor. However when I was a kid (I'm 46 now), if I was sick, I went to see the doctor in a neighboring town as my town didn't have one. Doctors visit was $5 and he had drugs in his office that we could get instead of going to a pharmacy. A normal visit would cost under $10 including medication. That wasn't THAT long ago. Now to go see my family doctor, it is $250 just to walk in the door. Why? It is a very complex system and the cost of paperwork and regulations makes it so that my doctor (who has a lot of the same beliefs that I do) has a break even number of over $200 per patient. It is stupid. I've stated on here before, I grew up below the poverty line in a tiny town in Oklahoma. My mother raised two sons by herself on not much of a paycheck. Not once did she go on any social programs. She was too proud for that. I'm sure if my brother or I had some affliction, she would have done what she had to, but thankfully we were and still are both very healthy. But she instilled a very independent spirit in us. I've worked my ass off to try to get ahead. I didn't get grants to pay for school. I worked for it. So when it comes to helping the poor, I am a bit harder than most and I probably sound like a monster to many of you. But dammit, help yourself. If you have to pick up aluminum cans to make enough money to buy a few gallons of gas, then do that. I know I did and if I didn't have enough money to drive back and forth from home to school, I'd sleep in my car in the school parking lot. I personally would rather not pay into social security. The return on my money is horrible. If the money I've put into SS was put into an IRA instead, I'd almost be able to retire now. But I'm a saver. I've put away at least 10% of every paycheck I've ever earned since I got out of school. I bought my house 21 years ago, paid it off 4 or 5 years ago. I drive my cars until they die. etc. These all go back to my upbringing. I'm nothing special. If I can do it, anybody can. There is no reason that most people can't take care of themselves.

Now with that said, I have no problems with so called hand-up programs. If a person has a bad run of luck and needs a boost to get back going and independent, I'm all for it. But paying somebody that is capable of work, year on year simply because they don't make an arbitrarily set amount of money a year is not a way to help them over the long haul you build lifelong poor dependents on the state. If a person has a true disability, then by all means, get them the care they need to have a basic quality of life.

A basic quality if life? Is that the best you think disabled people deserve? You are obviously a hard working and strong guy, but you are measuring everyone else against your experience and how you handled it.

Some people are not as strong. What are the strong supposed to do? Pull up the ladder? It's their own fault? Maybe in some cases, the majority no.

You talk of your strong faith. A faith that prevents you supporting the right of women to choose. I notice this across the US with Christians. Very vocal about protecting the poor unborn child. When it's born though, not so keen on it. It is condemned by the perceived and ingrained failures of it's parents many people attribute to them.

The hypocrisy of that position I'm sorry to say, I find nauseating. To be a Christian and also allow a situation, worse to vote against, providing universal health care to your poor contradicts every single thing I was taught about Christ.

You say your a conservative libertarian. But, you want a military paid for by taxes, schools, roads etc. under your world view who would pay for those things other than the state?

You and every other American citizen have been able to prosper due to public investment.

America is a strange place to many. Willing to spend trillions in geopolitical areas including the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan both our countries endured through real fake news. And yet, to spend a fraction of that on universal health care, investment in infrastructure and education for your own people is not acceptable?

I think that the day Christians hearts bleed as much for the poor child living in poverty, as they do the unborn is a day when they can look themselves in the mirror and say that's what he would have done.

Until then, it's isn't a Christianity that resembles anything I learned about as a child.

I enjoy your posts but as you probably noticed, I don't agree with your politics. Keep posting.

 

[Vic]

On this we agree.

People pay tax as they earn it, they pay tax as it grows and paying tax as they bequeath it is a piss take.

I'll receive fuck all when my parents pass away as I fund them in retirement as it is but it's a principle thing for me.

If you and others were willing to pay more taxes you wouldn't need to fund them in retirement - the shared society would do it.

 

[SWP's back]

If you and others were willing to pay more taxes you wouldn't need to fund them in retirement - the shared society would do it.

To where should I pay more taxes?

I fund them in retirement as they are my parents and their pensions are shite in comparison to what I earn. I'd rather give money directly to them than some scum bag who's never worked a day in their life.

 

[Vic]

Ah, the undeserving poor!

 

[SWP's back]

Ah, the undeserving poor!

You didn't answer my question.

Who would you like me to pay more tax to?

And I do thing people I don't know are less deserving than my own family yeah.

Only on blue moon would you find some **** unhappy I give my own money to my own family.

 

[ADegenerate]

A basic quality if life? Is that the best you think disabled people deserve? You are obviously a hard working and strong guy, but you are measuring everyone else against your experience and how you handled it.

Some people are not as strong. What are the strong supposed to do? Pull up the ladder? It's their own fault? Maybe in some cases, the majority no.

You talk of your strong faith. A faith that prevents you supporting the right of women to choose. I notice this across the US with Christians. Very vocal about protecting the poor unborn child. When it's born though, not so keen on it. It is condemned by the perceived and ingrained failures of it's parents many people attribute to them.

The hypocrisy of that position I'm sorry to say, I find nauseating. To be a Christian and also allow a situation, worse to vote against, providing universal health care to your poor contradicts every single thing I was taught about Christ.

You say your a conservative libertarian. But, you want a military paid for by taxes, schools, roads etc. under your world view who would pay for those things other than the state?

You and every other American citizen have been able to prosper due to public investment.

America is a strange place to many. Willing to spend trillions in geopolitical areas including the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan both our countries endured through real fake news. And yet, to spend a fraction of that on universal health care, investment in infrastructure and education for your own people is not acceptable?

I think that the day Christians hearts bleed as much for the poor child living in poverty, as they do the unborn is a day when they can look themselves in the mirror and say that's what he would have done.

Until then, it's isn't a Christianity that resembles anything I learned about as a child.

I enjoy your posts but as you probably noticed, I don't agree with your politics. Keep posting.

Finally this garbage is fading out. The hypocrisy is bewildering. The queer thing to me is that they pretty much all sprout the same thing with little variance in belief/ideals. I'm in the cutoff between Gen-X and millennial and my whole social circle has parents that think like pokes but have children that abhor those beliefs.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Why is it only following this election that I've heard the scumbag commie liberal loons crying and stamping their feet about Mr Donald Trump not getting as many votes as that evil slag Clinton?

They know how the voting process works. Shut fucking up you skriking arses

Strongly put, but you make a good point. There has been an awful lot of foot stamping and dummy spitting of late, both
here and the US about perceived unfairness in the voting systems, although losing candidate supporters never had any problems
with the systems prior to the vote. Applying this grievance to the UK elections would certainly shut the fucking SNP up,
they have 54 seats in the British Parliament with a voter total of less than one and a half million, UKIP have one seat with
a voter total just shy of four million. Which, applying this butt-hurt logic, means that Nigel Farage is 3 times more popular
than Nicola Sturgeon.
But we know that anyway ;)

 

[Magicpole]

Finally this garbage is fading out. The hypocrisy is bewildering. The queer thing to me is that they pretty much all sprout the same thing with little variance in belief/ideals. I'm in the cutoff between Gen-X and millennial and my whole social circle has parents that think like pokes but have children that abhor those beliefs.

I am glad to hear it. It astonishes me that people think their beliefs allow them only selective empathy.

I am a Christian, therefore I'm good.

No. Acting in a way the Jesus of the New Testament would, that's the ticket.

Would he stand by?

If you say you believe in him can you show me anything he says that would allow you to create a mindset that blamed the poor for being poor? The hungry for being hungry? The sick for being sick? To allow you to vote against providing health care free at the point of delivery for your citizens? To allow 30m of your fellow Americans to have no cover? In the US, not some poor country.

Jesus has been turned into a right wing capitalist in the US.

Unless they have a different bible then I would advise they reread it and then ask themselves do I really follow this guy, or am I taking the piss?

I would say the latter.

I would maybe recommend starting with this.

Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."

That seems extremely conclusive to me how he would view the world.

 

[ADegenerate]

I am glad to hear it. It astonishes me that people think their beliefs allow them only selective empathy.

I am a Christian, therefore I'm good.

No. Acting in a way the Jesus of the New Testament would, that's the ticket.

Would he stand by?

If you say you believe in him can you show me anything he says that would allow you to create a mindset that blamed the poor for being poor? The hungry for being hungry? The sick for being sick? To allow you to vote against providing health care free at the point of delivery for your citizens? To allow 30m of your fellow Americans to have no cover? In the US, not some poor country.

Jesus has been turned into a right wing capitalist in the US.

Unless they have a different bible then I would advise they reread it and then ask themselves do I really follow this guy, or am I taking the piss?

I would say the latter.

I would maybe recommend starting with this.

Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."

That seems extremely conclusive to me how he would view the world.

Good post. I'm going to tap out here... You're using logic. That's a rarity for these folks. I've been dealing with these people my whole life and it's incredibly frustrating.