Today's shooting in America thread

ChicagoBlue said:
No, the point is not the “effect” of lower gun ownership (as in less alcohol usage) but the eradication through prohibition!

From 300,000,000 guns to 100,000,000 guns is a 67% reduction. Let’s call it a PERMANENT EFFECT for you.

Now, let’s say ONE of those 100,000,000 guns kills “only” 17 year olds in a school.

What do we call that?

Progress?

Ergo, while trying to make YOUR point about the use of a Constitutional Amendment for TEMPORARY alcohol prohibition, I will assert that not only are Constitutional Amendments NOT designed, or desired, as temporary solutions to the current political zeitgeist, but that one in particular is a demonstrably weak example in the 2A discussion.

No-one, least of all those who would have to fall on their swords to even attempt, let alone succeed in, repealing 2A, would ever want to see their efforts follow the path of Prohibition….even if it ultimately resulted in a 95% reduction in firearms!
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I think you've completely lost your head because your comments aren't making sense, aren't replying to what I've actuall said and aren't relevent.

No one is talking about repealing the 2nd Ammendment except you.

Progress would obviously be fewer than 288 school shootings in the first 5 months of a year, your argument that 1 school shooting happeneing would mean nothing good has come from reducing gun numbers is pathetic and literal nonsense.
 
BimboBob said:
Guns aren't really the problem.They are the end product. The root cause is society itself, a society where certain members are falling off the radar, slipping through the net, fueled by access to social media/ Internet chat and a lack of social services due to underfunding.

It's usually the same kind of person, a loner, crap family life, feeling more and more unconnected with modern life.

Add in the ease of access to a gun and you have a perfect storm.

Go for the route cause, spend money on social care, schooling, education etc etc. It's an area where every country in the world has cut back.
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I bolded your last statement because it not only bears emphasis, but is also anathema to one half of the political spectrum of this country, because it involves the transfer of wealth from such things as low corporate taxes and military spending to a social structure that many feel cannot be sustained by the level of taxation amenable to a large (Republican) segment of the population.

Taxes - Bad
Rugged Individualism - Good
Military Might - Good
Social Safety Net - See Rugged Individualism (above)

And, while I share, and have seconded, your perceived (primary?) causal factors to the problem, it’s sad that one could almost twist the concept into the RWNJ adage that “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!”

In the absence of the ability to “pre-cog” such people from society, and acknowledging they may need help from society in resolving certain issues, it does not (of shouldn’t) give a free pass to the gun’s prominent and decisive role in the problem.
 
domalino said:
I think you've completely lost your head because your comments aren't making sense, aren't replying to what I've actuall said and aren't relevent.

No one is talking about repealing the 2nd Ammendment except you.

Progress would obviously be fewer than 288 mass shootings in the first 5 months of a year.
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Good luck. We are all counting on the sense you are spreading.

Let’s WISH away the death with thoughts and prayers.

P.S. You raised the issue of the Constitution Amendment and repeal of Prohibition, but I’m the only one talking about repealing 2A? So, what’s the analogy? The correlation? You gave me the recidivism rates for alcohol, as if it improved post Prohibition and repeal. How does it relate to guns, if not through a repeal of 2A?

P.P.S. On second thoughts, don’t waste either of our time.
 
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domalino said:
Go cradle your guns and dream about all those dead children who get murdered so you can pretend you'd kill a bad guy when you saw one.
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It took you longer than I thought, but you got there in the end. I’m the problem!

You never disappoint in your ability to disappoint. Bravo!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I bolded your last statement because it not only bears emphasis, but is also anathema to one half of the political spectrum of this country, because it involves the transfer of wealth from such things as low corporate taxes and military spending to a social structure that many feel cannot be sustained by the level of taxation amenable to a large (Republican) segment of the population.

Taxes - Bad
Rugged Individualism - Good
Military Might - Good
Social Safety Net - See Rugged Individualism (above)

And, while I share, and have seconded, your perceived (primary?) causal factors to the problem, it’s sad that one could almost twist the concept into the RWNJ adage that “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!”

In the absence of the ability to “pre-cog” such people from society, and acknowledging they may need help from society in resolving certain issues, it does not (of shouldn’t) give a free pass to the gun’s prominent and decisive role in the problem.
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Agree. You need to attack this problem from both ends. How did he buy this gun at 18? More to the point why is he allowed to buy this gun at 18?

Tighter gun laws will help.
 
2A

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Even the meaning of the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed' can't be agreed on. Does it relate to the 'well regulated militia' statement preceding it in that people in the militia's rights to bear arms shall not be infringed, or is the reference to 'the people' as in all citizens?

Either way 2A is here to stay, but it's a huge con and misunderstanding of history to hide behind it and use its wording to advocate few or no restrictions on firearms.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Remove the emotion, lay the facts bare, and there is nothing to dispute.

You highlight fears that almost everyone here (with a brain) share.

Coincidentally, and I only mention it because you touched on it, I was just reading where my wife and I will need about $300,000 JUST for medical care in retirement! That’s much, much more than most Americans HAVE for their retirement! And, from your list, that sounds like the good news!

America is accelerating towards a level of disparity that I’m not certain can exist in a republican democracy, which feels like why it is veering towards autocratic control. It is leading me towards some difficult decisions, including whether I can accumulate the resources to avoid the catastrophic outcomes that will almost certainly befall many and whether, even if I can, I want to spend them in a country that may no longer represent my views on society. The question then becomes, where does and can I afford to live there?

America was always a bargain based on a promise. That promise appears to not being fulfilled and the bargain doesn’t look quite so enticing in 2022 as it may have done in 1922!

So, if not here, where should one go for the kind of Utopian, peaceful, egalitarian existence that seems to feed the human soul?
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You seem like a very decent person and it's such a shame you have to feal this way about your own country.

We have many problems over here at the moment, but they appear small to what it appears the USA face and will face in the future.

You could do a lot worse than come and join us on our wonderful green island.
 
domalino said:
The NY Post is reporting that not only did the police wait outside for 40 minutes without confronting the gunman, not only did they stop parents from going in to save their children, some police went inside, got their kids and came out without trying to save more or confronting the shooter.

nypost.com

Salvador Ramos started shooting ‘whoever’s in his way’ at Texas school: police

The Texas shooter who entered Robb Elementary School started shooting at anyone in his way, Texas authorities told news organizations Tuesday.
nypost.com nypost.com
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Just when you think they can't sink any lower....
I'm afraid it will get much much worse before it gets any better.
 
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