Today's shooting in America thread

[shilly8903]

Who? I would like to hear from them, too.

While we wait to hear from them, my feeling is that I hope this can change the gun debate in America, but on first blush it appears the Right has quickly run to their corner and it was the number of doors into the school that was the problem!

What next? School fire kills 300 children because the one door got blocked by a child that tripped over?!

I was airborne when this happened and am just reading about it on here as I just returned from breakfast in Delhi, India.

It sickens me. But, it sickens me more that nothing will happen to change 2A or access to guns.

It FEELS like an intractable problem. It FEELS like America wrote itself into a corner hundreds of years ago and now so many fetishists elect people to protect their fetish. It FEELS like this will change nothing. I VOTE anti-2A.

Beto O’Rourkd tried to stand up for these dead children in front of the Texas Republican political establishment and was not only called a “son of a woman” from the stage, but escorted out by police for daring to point the finger at the people on the stage who hold all the political power to enact change! In Texas!

It is senseless. From what I’ve read, the Police bungled this entire thing by locking him in with children to kill and being unable to break down a door until a teacher used a key, and even then it was Border Patrol who took the shooter.

When it comes to political will, the American cross currents look, sound and feel ridiculous and pathetically immature.

AGAINST safe & legal abortion, against funding pre-K educational or child poverty social safety net…but FOR guns!

AGAINST mass slaughter of school children…but UNWILLING to lift a finger to remove access to the murder weapon OR provide universal mental health care for those that need it.

Meanwhile, SCOTUS deliberates Roe not Heller.

I know many if you think I’m some RWNJ gun nut, but I’m the absolute least of your concerns in that regard.

I know some of you think “never say never,” but that’s like me saying something stupid like “well, people mow down people with their cars. Maybe I should be worried about you and your car?”

For context, there are 330,000,000 people in America, 283,000,000 registered cars, but approx 350,000,000 guns (with no real number available!).

This site…

Gun Ownership by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

…shows a breakdown of state by state figures. Note which way those states vote.

I don’t have any words for what these parents are going through, and many of you believe America is fucking nuts.

I can’t disagree on this issue when looking from the outside in.

However, from the inside, I understand the problem and realize the political WILL needed to change it simply doesn’t exist, no matter how many children die.

That is fucking crazy to me.

That is America. I just live here.

Brilliantly put mate. I’m sorry for your anguish from this

 

[Resurrection Joe...]

These last five years has cemented my view that America is a rogue state. A culture being driven back by religious fundamentalism. A rise in extreme right ideology. It has never been a democracy with the Electoral College, voter suppression and discrimination abound. We are again in a situation where you know nothing will change. They will go on claiming freedom and are willing to sacrifice their children’s lives, or, other people’s children. A truly horrendous society where it’s people are conditioned to believe they are the greatest nation ever, the truth is they are an abomination. No health care for all, education an utter joke, constantly at war since 1776. Racism endemic and getting worse and 76m voted a second term for Trump. Game over.

Nail on head. Add in a model of capitalism that is running out of road....and Garth fkin Brooks.

 

[domalino]

 

[HelloCity]

Mental

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The point is that it doesn't have to be permanent to have a permanent effect.

If future generations get bored of not slaughtering their children, you can bring back whatever is banned.

Besides it's all really a non-point because no one is arguing for the complete ban of all guns, the only thing that needs banning is Assault rifles, ie any civilian derivitive of a military assault rifle with a magazine capacity over 15. Keep your hunting rifles and your handguns and your shotguns (which are a much better home defence weapon anyway).

No, the point is not the “effect” of lower gun ownership (as in less alcohol usage) but the eradication through prohibition!

From 300,000,000 guns to 100,000,000 guns is a 67% reduction. Let’s call it a PERMANENT EFFECT for you.

Now, let’s say ONE of those 100,000,000 guns kills “only” 17 year olds in a school.

What do we call that?

Progress?

Ergo, while trying to make YOUR point about the use of a Constitutional Amendment for TEMPORARY alcohol prohibition, I will assert that not only are Constitutional Amendments NOT designed, or desired, as temporary solutions to the current political zeitgeist, but that one in particular is a demonstrably weak example in the 2A discussion.

No-one, least of all those who would have to fall on their swords to even attempt, let alone succeed in, repealing 2A, would ever want to see their efforts follow the path of Prohibition….even if it ultimately resulted in a 95% reduction in firearms!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The point is that it doesn't have to be permanent to have a permanent effect.

If future generations get bored of not slaughtering their children, you can bring back whatever is banned.

Besides it's all really a non-point because no one is arguing for the complete ban of all guns, the only thing that needs banning is Assault rifles, ie any civilian derivitive of a military assault rifle with a magazine capacity over 15. Keep your hunting rifles and your handguns and your shotguns (which are a much better home defence weapon anyway).

Don’t keep going, because you’re highlighting that you don’t understand the basic problem with your argument, especially the sloganeering language.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

The NY Post is reporting that not only did the police wait outside for 40 minutes without confronting the gunman, not only did they stop parents from going in to save their children, some police went inside, got their kids and came out without trying to save more or confronting the shooter.

Salvador Ramos started shooting ‘whoever’s in his way’ at Texas school: police

The Texas shooter who entered Robb Elementary School started shooting at anyone in his way, Texas authorities told news organizations Tuesday.

nypost.com

Also armed officers initially 'engaged' the shooter with no success BEFORE he went on to kill all those people.

Texas school shooting shows why arming teachers wouldn't have worked (msnbc.com)

 

[BimboBob]

Guns aren't really the problem.They are the end product. The root cause is society itself, a society where certain members are falling off the radar, slipping through the net, fueled by access to social media/ Internet chat and a lack of social services due to underfunding.

It's usually the same kind of person, a loner, crap family life, feeling more and more unconnected with modern life.

Add in the ease of access to a gun and you have a perfect storm.

Go for the route cause, spend money on social care, schooling, education etc etc. It's an area where every country in the world has cut back.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Mental

Another one who doesn't get it.
Guns are keeping no one safe.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

These last five years has cemented my view that America is a rogue state. A culture being driven back by religious fundamentalism. A rise in extreme right ideology. It has never been a democracy with the Electoral College, voter suppression and discrimination abound. We are again in a situation where you know nothing will change. They will go on claiming freedom and are willing to sacrifice their children’s lives, or, other people’s children. A truly horrendous society where it’s people are conditioned to believe they are the greatest nation ever, the truth is they are an abomination. No health care for all, education an utter joke, constantly at war since 1776. Racism endemic and getting worse and 76m voted a second term for Trump. Game over.

Remove the emotion, lay the facts bare, and there is nothing to dispute.

You highlight fears that almost everyone here (with a brain) share.

Coincidentally, and I only mention it because you touched on it, I was just reading where my wife and I will need about $300,000 JUST for medical care in retirement! That’s much, much more than most Americans HAVE for their retirement! And, from your list, that sounds like the good news!

America is accelerating towards a level of disparity that I’m not certain can exist in a republican democracy, which feels like why it is veering towards autocratic control. It is leading me towards some difficult decisions, including whether I can accumulate the resources to avoid the catastrophic outcomes that will almost certainly befall many and whether, even if I can, I want to spend them in a country that may no longer represent my views on society. The question then becomes, where does and can I afford to live there?

America was always a bargain based on a promise. That promise appears to not being fulfilled and the bargain doesn’t look quite so enticing in 2022 as it may have done in 1922!

So, if not here, where should one go for the kind of Utopian, peaceful, egalitarian existence that seems to feed the human soul?