9 year old girl stabbed to death

[City Hobgoblin]

Why does every crime have to be sensationalised as the country on its arse, going to the dogs, well and truly fucked etc. It's just another crime. Crime has always happened, always will in the future.
For what it's worth, there is less violent tcrime now than there has been in the past yet to listen to people on social media you'd think it was unsafe to step outside your house.

Because it sells advertising and is useful to politicians

 

[dannyboy29]

It’s mostly not.

I'd struggle to list many positives

 

[madloaf]

Why does every crime have to be sensationalised as the country on its arse, going to the dogs, well and truly fucked etc. It's just another crime. Crime has always happened, always will in the future.
For what it's worth, there is less violent tcrime now than there has been in the past yet to listen to people on social media you'd think it was unsafe to step outside your house.

I know what you're saying but I mean there is massively more violent crime than say 10 years ago. At some point men have to look at themselves and say "hmm is 2 million violent crimes a year maybe too much?" Will we though? Will we fuck.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Why does every crime have to be sensationalised as the country on its arse, going to the dogs, well and truly fucked etc. It's just another crime. Crime has always happened, always will in the future.
For what it's worth, there is less violent tcrime now than there has been in the past yet to listen to people on social media you'd think it was unsafe to step outside your house.

Because part of every government and big business strategy is to keep people frightened. It uses it to make you spend, be more compliant and allow it to introduce laws to ‘keep us safe’. The more scared we are, the more we are likely to accept more authoritarian policies.
The media do it in the hope of keeping relevant and getting you to buy their things.

 

[west didsblue]

Just reading about the little 9 year old girl who has been stabbed to death by another 15 year old kid. One day she's doing her Christmas list, 2 days later she's killed. This country is well and truly on his arse. RIP

It’s an absolutely appalling crime and the perpetrator needs to not see the light of day for many years.
However it’s not an indication that the country is on its arse. On the contrary I’d say this country is on the up.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

there is massively more violent crime than say 10 years ago

No, there isn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndingjune2025#violence-with-or-without-injury



While there was a 1% increase in police recorded violence without injury (to 821,288 offences) in YE June 2025,
compared with YE June 2024 (813,198 offences), there was a 6% decrease in police recorded violence with
injury (to 515,239 offences). This follows large increases in these offences since 2015 largely because of
improvements to recording practices over this period.

 

[madloaf]

No, there isn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndingjune2025#violence-with-or-without-injury

View attachment 178185

While there was a 1% increase in police recorded violence without injury (to 821,288 offences) in YE June 2025,
compared with YE June 2024 (813,198 offences), there was a 6% decrease in police recorded violence with
injury (to 515,239 offences). This follows large increases in these offences since 2015 largely because of
improvements to recording practices over this period.

I bow to your greater data if only because I'm lazy.

 

[Stephen230]

This country needs a change in the law so any stabbing is classed as attempted murder. That way kids might be less keen on carrying them around so much. Possibly.

Obviously we'd need more prisons, but we do anyway.

That wouldn’t work. You can’t really legislate that a particular action must bring about a specific charge. You’d still have to prove the charge. It would just lead to some attackers not getting charged at all, if the only options were attempt murder or nothing.

In any case, the reason attempt murder is used very sparingly is that it’s notoriously a difficult charge to prove. You’re basically having to prove that somebody intentionally tried to do something that they didn’t actually manage to do.

And with the maximum sentence for Section 18, with intent, being life imprisonment anyway, it’s usually the safer option to ensure someone who’s clearly shown serious intent to harm, doesn’t end up walking.

 

[mexico1970]

That wouldn’t work. You can’t really legislate that a particular action must bring about a specific charge. You’d still have to prove the charge. It would just lead to some attackers not getting charged at all, if the only options were attempt murder or nothing.

In any case, the reason attempt murder is used very sparingly is that it’s notoriously a difficult charge to prove. You’re basically having to prove that somebody intentionally tried to do something that they didn’t actually manage to do.

And with the maximum sentence for Section 18, with intent, being life imprisonment anyway, it’s usually the safer option to ensure someone who’s clearly shown serious intent to harm, doesn’t end up walking.

He did say the law needs changing, if you intentionally stab someone then intent to kill should be made easier to prove.

The defence of "Just stabbing someone a bit" shouldn't wash.

 

[madloaf]

No, there isn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndingjune2025#violence-with-or-without-injury

View attachment 178185

While there was a 1% increase in police recorded violence without injury (to 821,288 offences) in YE June 2025,
compared with YE June 2024 (813,198 offences), there was a 6% decrease in police recorded violence with
injury (to 515,239 offences). This follows large increases in these offences since 2015 largely because of
improvements to recording practices over this period.

How violent is Britain? New study examines conflicting trends in official violent crime stats - Lancaster University

A new study examining conflicting trends in official violent crime stats reveals that the leading measure in England and Wales underestimates the level of violent crime - and the findings challenge official confidence in a downward trend.

www.lancaster.ac.uk

Worth a read. I have no interest in derailing this thread further with a conversation about statistics and I am simply leaving this here as I thought you might be interested.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

How violent is Britain? New study examines conflicting trends in official violent crime stats - Lancaster University

A new study examining conflicting trends in official violent crime stats reveals that the leading measure in England and Wales underestimates the level of violent crime - and the findings challenge official confidence in a downward trend.

www.lancaster.ac.uk

Worth a read. I have no interest in derailing this thread further with a conversation about statistics and I am simply leaving this here as I thought you might be interested.

Thanks!

 

[Stephen230]

He did say the law needs changing, if you intentionally stab someone then intent to kill should be made easier to prove.

The defence of "Just stabbing someone a bit" shouldn't wash.

Well yeah, you can change the law to anything you like. But you can’t get away from the fact that to convict somebody of attempt murder, you’ve pretty much got to prove that they intended, but failed, to kill someone.

The net result of mandatory charging every stabber with attempt murder, would undoubtedly be that large numbers of them are getting convicted of nothing.

 

[mexico1970]

Well yeah, you can change the law to anything you like. But you can’t get away from the fact that to convict somebody of attempt murder, you’ve pretty much got to prove that they intended, but failed, to kill someone.

The net result of mandatory charging every stabber with attempt murder, would undoubtedly be that large numbers of them are getting convicted of nothing.

You make it easier to prove which is what Matt suggested, IMHO you carry a knife and you stab someone then it's life in the clink no ifs or buts.

 

[foggy1974]

Why does every crime have to be sensationalised as the country on its arse, going to the dogs, well and truly fucked etc. It's just another crime. Crime has always happened, always will in the future.
For what it's worth, there is less violent tcrime now than there has been in the past yet to listen to people on social media you'd think it was unsafe to step outside your house.

Isnt that the problem, its just another crime.

 

[Stephen230]

You make it easier to prove which is what Matt suggested, IMHO you carry a knife and you stab someone then it's life in the clink no ifs or buts.

Not really sure what ‘make it easier to prove’ means? Unless you’re talking about lowering the burden of proof in criminal cases to something similar to civil law, which I don’t think would get much support from anywhere.

In any case, in a theoretical world where they wanted to punish every knife crime with a life sentence, it would be easier to change the sentencing guidelines for a Section 18, than invent some weird new interpretation of what attempted murder involves.