Henry Nowak murder

bert38 said:
Yet in the Judge's summary he didn't agree with you.

Secondly, every single person who complained of chest pains was transported to hospital by a double crewed police car-and came back hours later with nothing wrong with them. A complete waste of scarce resources-yet because of that 1 in a 1000 chance you could never take the risk-even though we all know they are lying. And that's my point-people lie. And also re chest pains, those incidents play out over 30 mins/several hours (trying to find a couple of free officers mainly), not 1-3 minutes of 'not being arsed'.

Another point-because people seem to have a view that resources are endless and frontline policing is so easy-go to any hospital A&E and see all the police cars outside-all with prisoners.
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It’s fucking really simple. Person in front of you says they’ve been stabbed. Look and see if they have or not. It really isn’t rocket science.

Your defence of the police was admirable at first, but now it’s bordering on embarrassing. There simply is no defending this imbecile.
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
It’s fucking really simple. Person in front of you says they’ve been stabbed. Look and see if they have or not. It really isn’t rocket science.

Your defence of the police was admirable at first, but now it’s bordering on embarrassing. There simply is no defending this imbecile.
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I have said numerous times that the officer was set on a mindset that had been created in large part by a false narrative-compounded by the belief that the 'offender' was just an intoxicated male-that dictated how he approached Henry and how he responded to his pleas. I'm not defending it-I'm trying to explain why that path may have been followed.

And to add-the Judge does defend him.

The IPOC have said all the police are still being treated as witnesses (which means they have not as yet been served with misconduct papers).

Are they all embarrassing, defensive idiots?
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
It’s fucking really simple. Person in front of you says they’ve been stabbed. Look and see if they have or not. It really isn’t rocket science.

Your defence of the police was admirable at first, but now it’s bordering on embarrassing. There simply is no defending this imbecile.
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Someone upstream wrote that in the heat of the moment or something to that effect it was hard to see if the young lad had been stabbed when he had been stabbed 5 times legs, chest and even in the face. Imagine trying to support these police officers and the political system that got us to the place we are now?
 
bert38 said:
I have said numerous times that the officer was set on a mindset that had been created in large part by a false narrative-compounded by the belief that the 'offender' was just an intoxicated male-that dictated how he approached Henry and how he responded to his pleas. I'm not defending it-I'm trying to explain why that path may have been followed.

And to add-the Judge does defend him.

The IPOC have said all the police are still being treated as witnesses (which means they have not as yet been served with misconduct papers).

Are they all embarrassing, defensive idiots?
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I don’t care about narratives and mindsets. Anyone with an ounce of common sense is going to physically check someone who has claimed to have been stabbed. That goes for people in any walk of life. It should be more than expected for someone who has been sent on a call as a policeman.
 
expatblue said:
Someone upstream wrote that in the heat of the moment or something to that effect it was hard to see if the young lad had been stabbed when he had been stabbed 5 times legs, chest and even in the face. Imagine trying to support these police officers and the political system that got us to the place we are now?
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have you read the Judge's summary?
 
bert38 said:
Firstly, I have just read the IOPC statement.

Secondly, debate is fine-but its extremely frustrating when people ignore factual documents issued by a court.
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I remarked that he was stabbed 5 times and he was, I would like to think that a police officer/s would be able to at least be able to notice that at a bare minimum. It isn't frustrating and it isn't hard.
 
Ban-jani said:
The way the victims of the grooming gang scandal were treated is a far more accurate example of such policing.

Disbelieved, ignored, mocked, even served up to their abusers in certain extreme examples, because of that very mindset.
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It was a perfect storm for the poor girls.

The left seem to have been taken over by the white middle class woke who prefer 'sexier' issues where they can show their right on credentials and kneeling skills to the whole world. They seemingly hate the white working class (we are all stupid apparently). So we had a left wing where most went AWOL on the battlefield because the victims were white underprivileged working class girls. Maybe someone can explain white privilege to those girls?

The centrists did what they always do, keep their heads down, ignore it and hope that the problem goes away.

The right, very similar to the left, are so skin colour obsessed that they fail to see the victims at all and just want to prove the superiority of their ideology. Rather than hating the working class they seem to want to cynically use them to achieve their own personal nirvana.

Bottom line for me is that the white working class (and specifically the white working class) have been left friendless politically.
 
expatblue said:
I remarked that he was stabbed 5 times and he was, I would like to think that a police officer/s would be able to at least be able to notice that at a bare minimum. It isn't frustrating and it isn't hard.
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It is if you’re incompetent at your job, thick, dumb or whatever else this dickhead has come across as.

If it is him who has resigned, thank fuck for that. They should can his pension though.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
I think this whole incident is awful and a policing failure which needs to be addressed - but there is one thing I remain utterly convinced of, which is that the Sikh community by-and-large is a massive net positive for this country despite being quite a small population. They are one of the most generous, charitable and tolerant groups out there and the amount of work they do voluntarily for wider British society should not be undermined by this event. Unless something drastic happens, I will always stick up for them on that front.

It is no surprise to me that for many of them, their first reaction is going to be one of dismay and horror and an attempt to try and correct the wrongs perpetrated by one of their number.
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Exactly as far as I can see very few if any are blaming the Sikh community who have generally taken to life and the community in Great Britain and most of the anger has been into the way the young lad was treated.Questions do need to be answered through between his treatment and the treatment his murderer received and why the difference.
 
In America the very first thing they do is call medics. The suspect could have threatened them, stabbed or shot an officer, killed bystanders, doesn't matter, the first thing is call medics. Its an optics thing, its basic stuff. They never refuse first aid or medics help.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
In America the very first thing they do is call medics. The suspect could have threatened them, stabbed or shot an officer, killed bystanders, doesn't matter, the first thing is call medics. Its an optics thing, its basic stuff. They never refuse first aid or medics help.
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When though?
Because here nobody knew it was a stabbing incident until it was too late.

In live situations where an offender is actively in possession of a knife/firearm/etc an ambulance may arrive but they won't go anywhere near the scene until its safe.
 
bert38 said:
Yet in the Judge's summary he didn't agree with you.

Secondly, every single person who complained of chest pains was transported to hospital by a double crewed police car-and came back hours later with nothing wrong with them. A complete waste of scarce resources-yet because of that 1 in a 1000 chance you could never take the risk-even though we all know they are lying. And that's my point-people lie. And also re chest pains, those incidents play out over 30 mins/several hours (trying to find a couple of free officers mainly), not 1-3 minutes of 'not being arsed'.

Another point-because people seem to have a view that resources are endless and frontline policing is so easy-go to any hospital A&E and see all the police cars outside-all with prisoners-all taken from the frontline.
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They only needed to check, not say “I don’t think you have mate”.
 
bert38 said:
1-3 minutes provoking hours and days of discussion with perfect hindsight.

Policing is messy, unpredictable, chaotic and occasionally violent-things will always go wrong.
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As I’ve said before I appreciate you have a perspective I don’t have. That said, you arrive and see a victim stood up healthy and keen to show you his injuries and an assailant slumped on the floor barely able to breath. It’s not a violent chaotic scene with bodies flying everywhere. Assailant tells you he has been stabbed and can’t breath multiple times. You drag him to handcuff him without bothering to check whether he actually had been stabbed. You are a trained public official. It’s totally incompetent and let’s see what the enquiry makes of it.

Am sure he’s not a bad bloke but he shouldn’t be doing the job he is doing
 
bert38 said:
Another bandwagon for the right wing to jump onto.

No consideration for the victim, their family, due process, fair trials, the officers involved-just red meat for the Facebook experts who want to play judge and jury.

Petitions to release the footage? Pathetic shite again.
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No consideration for the Officers is charge?
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
As I’ve said before I appreciate you have a perspective I don’t have. That said, you arrive and see a victim stood up health and keen to show you his injuries and an assailant slumped on the floor barely able to breath. It’s not a violent chaotic scene with bodies flying everywhere. Assailant tells you he has been stabbed and can’t breath multiple times. You drag him to handcuff him without bothering to check whether he actually had been stabbed. You are a trained public official. It’s totally incompetent and let’s see what the enquiry makes of it.

Am sure he’s not a bad bloke but he shouldn’t be doing the job he is doing
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I don't disagree-but we aren't in his head at that exact moment with that exact information-he sees what I believe he thinks is an intoxicated male who's been running his mouth..wouldn't it be much easier for me to say I would have done X,Y and Z because I never cocked up?

I'm not sure of the remit of the IOPC-I expect people might end up frustrated because the most likely outcome aside from any discipline is a recommendation for an inquiry...

I told that story once when I went to a burglar on premises and entered the property, saw a tall, blonde male inside and promptly gave him my details and a victim care package and went to speak to the witness who described a tall blonde man kicking the door panel in. Incompetent? Useless? Or a decision making process that was flawed and rigid because the man I found in the property I recognised and knew he had once lived there-so I assumed he still did..he didn't. I felt a right twat-but it was a lesson which I didn't repeat until the next thing I got wrong. I always used to say if you don't do anything (and plenty of cops hide and avoid jobs) you never do anything wrong. But rest assured every mistake you do make will be looked at with perfect 20/20 vision.
 
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bert38 said:
I don't disagree-but we aren't in his head at that exact moment with that exact information-he sees what I believe he thinks is an intoxicated male who's been running his mouth..wouldn't it be much easier for me to say I would have done X,Y and Z because I never cocked up?

I'm not sure of the remit of the IOPC-I expect people might end up frustrated because the most likely outcome aside from any discipline is a recommendation for an inquiry...
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I’m not going to dissuade you from your view and that’s fine. Of course people make mistakes. But there is the question of the basic competence of the individual and whether they are capable of doing the tough job they were trained for.
 
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