Henry Nowak murder

[bert38]

They only needed to check, not say “I don’t think you have mate”.

1-3 minutes provoking hours and days of discussion with perfect hindsight.

Policing is messy, unpredictable, chaotic and occasionally violent-things will always go wrong.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

1-3 minutes provoking hours and days of discussion with perfect hindsight.

Policing is messy, unpredictable, chaotic and occasionally violent-things will always go wrong.

As I’ve said before I appreciate you have a perspective I don’t have. That said, you arrive and see a victim stood up healthy and keen to show you his injuries and an assailant slumped on the floor barely able to breath. It’s not a violent chaotic scene with bodies flying everywhere. Assailant tells you he has been stabbed and can’t breath multiple times. You drag him to handcuff him without bothering to check whether he actually had been stabbed. You are a trained public official. It’s totally incompetent and let’s see what the enquiry makes of it.

Am sure he’s not a bad bloke but he shouldn’t be doing the job he is doing

 

[Ho Chi Man City]

Another bandwagon for the right wing to jump onto.

No consideration for the victim, their family, due process, fair trials, the officers involved-just red meat for the Facebook experts who want to play judge and jury.

Petitions to release the footage? Pathetic shite again.

No consideration for the Officers is charge?

 

[bert38]

As I’ve said before I appreciate you have a perspective I don’t have. That said, you arrive and see a victim stood up health and keen to show you his injuries and an assailant slumped on the floor barely able to breath. It’s not a violent chaotic scene with bodies flying everywhere. Assailant tells you he has been stabbed and can’t breath multiple times. You drag him to handcuff him without bothering to check whether he actually had been stabbed. You are a trained public official. It’s totally incompetent and let’s see what the enquiry makes of it.

Am sure he’s not a bad bloke but he shouldn’t be doing the job he is doing

I don't disagree-but we aren't in his head at that exact moment with that exact information-he sees what I believe he thinks is an intoxicated male who's been running his mouth..wouldn't it be much easier for me to say I would have done X,Y and Z because I never cocked up?

I'm not sure of the remit of the IOPC-I expect people might end up frustrated because the most likely outcome aside from any discipline is a recommendation for an inquiry...

I told that story once when I went to a burglar on premises and entered the property, saw a tall, blonde male inside and promptly gave him my details and a victim care package and went to speak to the witness who described a tall blonde man kicking the door panel in. Incompetent? Useless? Or a decision making process that was flawed and rigid because the man I found in the property I recognised and knew he had once lived there-so I assumed he still did..he didn't. I felt a right twat-but it was a lesson which I didn't repeat until the next thing I got wrong. I always used to say if you don't do anything (and plenty of cops hide and avoid jobs) you never do anything wrong. But rest assured every mistake you do make will be looked at with perfect 20/20 vision.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I don't disagree-but we aren't in his head at that exact moment with that exact information-he sees what I believe he thinks is an intoxicated male who's been running his mouth..wouldn't it be much easier for me to say I would have done X,Y and Z because I never cocked up?

I'm not sure of the remit of the IOPC-I expect people might end up frustrated because the most likely outcome aside from any discipline is a recommendation for an inquiry...

I’m not going to dissuade you from your view and that’s fine. Of course people make mistakes. But there is the question of the basic competence of the individual and whether they are capable of doing the tough job they were trained for.

 

[hilts]

I think this whole incident is awful and a policing failure which needs to be addressed - but there is one thing I remain utterly convinced of, which is that the Sikh community by-and-large is a massive net positive for this country despite being quite a small population. They are one of the most generous, charitable and tolerant groups out there and the amount of work they do voluntarily for wider British society should not be undermined by this event. Unless something drastic happens, I will always stick up for them on that front.

It is no surprise to me that for many of them, their first reaction is going to be one of dismay and horror and an attempt to try and correct the wrongs perpetrated by one of their number.

Great post, I would do away with ceremonial/culture carrying of knives mind. In 2026 we could really do with moving away from organised religion tbh.

 

[hilts]

You can’t see a chest pain. You can, however, see multiple stab wounds.

It all depends on if you can be arsed to look or just tell the person claiming to be stabbed that he hasn’t, and call him mate.

It beggars belief that a policeman doesn't react to what he sees upon attending a scene.

 

[Ho Chi Man City]

you can have one for that too.

I’m not that needy, just puzzled why you take the view it’s an opportunity for the far right.

The police fucked up here (unfortunately) and action needs taking. At least the justice system got it right as far as the accused.

Unlike those cunts at Manchester airport who got away with it, but you defended the “system” when clearly everyone knew they were guilty, a bullshit defence and dodgy jury, and I’d suggest you know it.

I wonder if the twat who murdered Henry Nowak will launch a claim
From prison because his turban was pulled off and he had a swollen eye?

 

[bert38]

I’m not that needy, just puzzled why you take the view it’s an opportunity for the far right.

The police fucked up here (unfortunately) and action needs taking. At least the justice system got it right as far as the accused.

Unlike those cunts at Manchester airport who got away with it, but you defended the “system” when clearly everyone knew they were guilty, a bullshit defence and dodgy jury, and I’d suggest you know it.

I wonder if the twat who murdered Henry Nowak will launch a claim
From prison because his turban was pulled off and he had a swollen eye?

You didn't hear Farage? You didn't see the usual suspects at Southampton the very same day?

I believe the offenders were guilty of all offences at manchester airport-but I will always defend our justice system.

Police officers will also fuck up-its the nature of the job no matter what people think.

 

[i kne albert davy]

And PC Plod got a few likes for that ridiculous post.

To be honest mate he seems a decent guy with some strongly held beliefs, not necessarily mine but it wouldn’t do for us all to be the same:-)

 

[bert38]

To be honest mate he seems a decent guy with some strongly held beliefs, no necessarily mine but it wouldn’t do for us all to be the same:-)

I would like to think if you met me at a game you'd think that too..

 

[i kne albert davy]

When though?
Because here nobody knew it was a stabbing incident until it was too late.

In live situations where an offender is actively in possession of a knife/firearm/etc an ambulance may arrive but they won't go anywhere near the scene until its safe.

Bit ingenuous there if I may say, the lad himself told the officer he’d been stabbed 4 times that I heard only to be answered”don’t think so mate” admitted may well already been to late but the PCs didn’t know that what they did next beggars belief.

 

[i kne albert davy]

I would like to think if you met me at a game you'd think that too..

We probably would very very few people i dislike and if you served with GMP a few of my mates would most probably know you.

 

[threespires]

Great post, I would do away with ceremonial/culture carrying of knives mind. In 2026 we could really do with moving away from organised religion tbh.

Just worth pointing out that the murderer in this case was already wearing a much smaller ceremonial kirpan round his neck, that met his religious obligations. The murder weapon was one of a number of larger weapons he owned which were more to do with him being a wrong 'un rather than any required religious adherence.

I'm not saying we can't/shouldn't have the debate but I think we need to be clear eyed that this wasn't a man who used a religious symbol as a weapon. It was a man who committed a murder with a lethal weapon that he had no religious need to own or carry, full stop.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

When though?
Because here nobody knew it was a stabbing incident until it was too late.

In live situations where an offender is actively in possession of a knife/firearm/etc an ambulance may arrive but they won't go anywhere near the scene until its safe.

The first thing the brother says to the copper is “my dad’s holding him up”

As the copper walks down the drive the dad says “I keep holding him up as he is dropping. He’s got a mouthful of blood”

Henry, no doubt relieved the police arrived says “i can’t breath”

30 seconds after arriving on scene the copper says “has anyone been HURT other than him”.

Henry goes on to say he can’t breathe and that he’s been stabbed. The very initial assessment of the copper was he was hurt, but they didn’t check him properly and in fact told him he had not been stabbed.

30 seconds on the scene and the cop knows he’s been hurt but doesn’t show any curiosity. Stop defending the indefensible

 

[bert38]

The first thing the brother says to the copper is “my dad’s holding him up”

As the copper walks down the drive the dad says “I keep holding him up as he is dropping. He’s got a mouthful of blood”

Henry, no doubt relieved the police arrived says “i can’t breath”

30 seconds after arriving on scene the copper says “has anyone been HURT other than him”.

Henry goes on to say he can’t breathe and that he’s been stabbed. The very initial assessment of the copper was he was hurt, but they didn’t check him properly and in fact told him he had not been stabbed.

30 seconds on the scene and the cop knows he’s been hurt but doesn’t show any curiosity. Stop defending the indefensible

I'm trying to put myself in his shoes-I think he sees an intoxicated male and his brain is then blind to the alternative and he treats Henry's pleas as just drunken rambling.

 

[bert38]

Yet actual policy was introduced in the UK as a result of what happened over there.

but even if it was when would an ambulance have been called in this circumstance?

and if people understand policing on the frontline is stretched, wait til they hear about ambulances/paramedics

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I'm trying to put myself in his shoes-I think he sees an intoxicated male and his brain is then blind to the alternative and he treats Henry's pleas as just drunken rambling.

Instead of trying to put yourself in their shoes why not just look at what you can see.

Where have you got drunk from by the way. Why are you assuming they thought he was drunk when they’d been told he had blood in his mouth and themselves recognised he was hurt as soon as they entered the scene.

Your narrative has switched from “how could they have known?” to imaginary thoughts they may have had.

Look with your own eyes at what happened and defend what they did, if you think it is defensible

 

[i kne albert davy]

The first thing the brother says to the copper is “my dad’s holding him up”

As the copper walks down the drive the dad says “I keep holding him up as he is dropping. He’s got a mouthful of blood”

Henry, no doubt relieved the police arrived says “i can’t breath”

30 seconds after arriving on scene the copper says “has anyone been HURT other than him”.

Henry goes on to say he can’t breathe and that he’s been stabbed. The very initial assessment of the copper was he was hurt, but they didn’t check him properly and in fact told him he had not been stabbed.

30 seconds on the scene and the cop knows he’s been hurt but doesn’t show any curiosity. Stop defending the indefensible

Good assessment in my opinion,we know mistakes can happen but this was the Mother of all mistakes the Judge did say in his summary people often make up stories of being injured to avoid arrest but Gods sake he wasn’t a big lad check before handcuffing him. And once apparent he had been stabbed why’s the assailant left not handcuffed? At least we know it’s not two tier policing and Sir Kier told us all lessons with be learnt.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Good assessment in my opinion,we know mistakes can happen but this was the Mother of all mistakes the Judge did say in his summary people often make up stories of being injured to avoid arrest but Gods sake he wasn’t a big lad check before handcuffing him. And once apparent he had been stabbed why’s the assailant left not handcuffed? At least we know it’s not two tier policing and Sir Kier told us all lessons with be learnt.

I’m not sure it is 2 teir policing. Any enquiry might go down that line, but I’m not convinced. It was bloody awful dereliction of duties by trained public officials though. Absolutely no doubt in my mind of that