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'kinell

Great to see yet another rout of the fascist invaders, but what a desperate waste of life, and a bit worrying that Russia is still able to muster such an assault after 18 months of getting battered.

It's almost as though complexity and nuance are necessary in this discussion...

The press conference and much other film of covered bodies was on both BBC and c4 news.

It seems beyond doubt that a very large number of people died. BBC report from the scene with body parts still being collected, macabre press conference from doctors at the hospital, dozens of body bags, nobody seems to be disputing any of this.

Is it possible to agree (1) That Hamas committed an appalling crime and is now using the proximity of civilians to hide their forces (2) Israel has killed more civilians than Hamas (3) Neither of these depends on ascribing blame to this particular atrocity.

I allowed the proximity of the Israel Palestine thread to drag me into that cesspool I would otherwise have never seen. So there's that.

Hard to know where to start with this. Just for starters 1. Many religious teachings are not "right wing", however you define that. 2. I'm not sure that massacres are either right or left wing; both extremes have happily employed them in the past. 3. Not all muslims have the same opinions 4...

5 today?? WTF is going on?

Not sure if that makes it more or less likely; there's a good case to be made that a main driver for Russia invading Ukraine was precisely to take domestic attention away from an economy crippled by corruption.

I agree with you in general, but sadly, Israel has considerable form on exactly this sort of coverup. I'm not saying they are here, I've no idea, but it wouldn't be a surprise if they were. There's also the wider truth that thousands of people have already died as a result of the assault on...

'Twas ever thus. I was listening to desert Island discs archive with Jeremy Bowen a few days ago. You could still hear the fury in his voice about the lies told about this incident by uk and us, and the way he was personally smeared over it two decades later...

Looking forward to the various bedwetters who claimed Putin would nuke Ukraine if escalation allowed explaining why, yet again, this time with ATACMS, armageddon has failed to arrive.

If true, the availability of ATACMS seems much more significant than the specific target, though that's obviously great news too. Degrading Russian capability behind the lines. Wonder what's next...

Phillips O'brien weekly update, always worth a read. https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-50-aid-avdiivka-thanks

More important than anything on the battlefield. Worrying times for Ukraine, America and the world. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/14/republican-house-ukraine-support-gaetz

Lol. I was going to post exactly that but went on the above waffle instead!