£160,000 a week is *&%"ing ridiculous!

[Skashion]

I have a friend who wants to say hello:

 

[Dhenry]

As I'm sure it's obvious, the less risky the investment, the less deviation from target value.

Huh?

Are you Garrrrrry Cook?

Football is not a business for the fundamental reason that it isn't profit driven.

Anybody who buys a football club to make money is a fool. Or, as was the case with Shinawatra, a criminal who actaully didn't mind destroying the club to make a quick profit.

The accounts of every top club prove that ownership is a net loss enterprise. The two options are to run up vast debts or (more rarely and good for us) simply give multi millions to the club for the sporting pleasure of it all.

I personally agree with Peter Jones when he was on James Corden's world cup show, saying that it's a stupid idea to buy a club.

But the people owning big clubs are still astute business men. Whether the aim is to make a profit or avoid a net loss, the principles of valuation and return required on investment (whether it be nought instead of +£1m) remain the same. For people like our owners of Abramovich or Glazers even - the aim of a football club in the portfolio is to increase the brand value of other businesses owned. Our owners are using city to develop the image of Abu Dhabi, for instance. Glazers are just mad, on the other side of the spectrum.

Even without aiming to make financial gain from the project itself - the reasons behind ownership and the very core strategy of the business - are still profit driven. Wigan and Arsenal have made stable profits recently. Financial Fair Play rules will make it easier for others to as well. Clubs in a debt free situation with a good foundation might well be turning in good money soon. Like us. even.

 

[I remember the kippax]

Cheers mate. It's nice to have a rational discussion with someone who knows what they are talking about rather than two numpties who gain their knowledge of contract law and economics through reading the Daily Sport.

I have a post-graduate qualification in Economics and Business Management, and the two half-wits think they can take me on in discussing free market principles... ha-de-fucking-ha!

I realise I spoke too simple for them, I tried my very best to make it understandable to them... and failed.

Well, I've learned a lesson from that, I can assure you... don't argue with idiots who would struggle to spell Keynes let alone discuss him...

Strangely enough I take exception to this, you have no idea how old I am, my qualifications or my background and yet you feel the need to call me a half-wit, a Daily Spot reader (hey come on, I've looked at the pictures though) and you believe that your Post-Graduate qualification allows you to insult me and a fellow poster.

That's fine, you have your opinion and I have mine. That's what a message board is all about - the difference in opinions. In the same way that you have your degree and I have mine, you have your post-graduate qualification - I have mine, you have your job, I have mine- again that is fine, but please (and this seems to be happening on this forum as a whole a lot - and I have read it for a long time before I joined as my son comes on here regularly) don't insult someone, call them thick, a half-wit or whatever just because they have a different opinion to you or point out mistakes in your posts.

We are, in the majority, all City fans on here, some longer than others, but at the end of the day a forum is about difference of opinion - so don't belittle people that you don't know because their opinion differs from yours.

Oh, and Keynes - never heard of him - but I know a shitload about Huygen and his wave theory!

 

[SWP's back]

No but some wopuld say the rags and FC United may well be a case in point.

Just playing devils advocate though. Or Wimbledon and MK Dons.

And it is for some. Others would defect, 'the gloryhunters'. Others still would stop going to matches and just support City from their armchairs, but for those 28,000 there was no choice at all. No competition. This is the attitude of the majority of fans. There was a football supporters survey, I probably have the link somewhere, in which fans responded in a significant majority that they would not support another club if their club went bankrupt. Therefore, any attempt to suggest then that a football club's revenues are solely reflected by pure competition is nonsense. Any model which doesn't acknowledge the loyalty a football fan feels towards their club has failed.

I agree mate. As I say, I was just playing devils advocate on that.

 

[mammutly]

Huh?

Are you Garrrrrry Cook?

Football is not a business for the fundamental reason that it isn't profit driven.

Anybody who buys a football club to make money is a fool. Or, as was the case with Shinawatra, a criminal who actaully didn't mind destroying the club to make a quick profit.

The accounts of every top club prove that ownership is a net loss enterprise. The two options are to run up vast debts or (more rarely and good for us) simply give multi millions to the club for the sporting pleasure of it all.

I personally agree with Peter Jones when he was on James Corden's world cup show, saying that it's a stupid idea to buy a club.

But the people owning big clubs are still astute business men. Whether the aim is to make a profit or avoid a net loss, the principles of valuation and return required on investment (whether it be nought instead of +£1m) remain the same. For people like our owners of Abramovich or Glazers even - the aim of a football club in the portfolio is to increase the brand value of other businesses owned. Our owners are using city to develop the image of Abu Dhabi, for instance. Glazers are just mad, on the other side of the spectrum.

Even without aiming to make financial gain from the project itself - the reasons behind ownership and the very core strategy of the business - are still profit driven. Wigan and Arsenal have made stable profits recently. Financial Fair Play rules will make it easier for others to as well. Clubs in a debt free situation with a good foundation might well be turning in good money soon. Like us. even.

I have a question.

Why would our owners want or need to 'promote the image of Abu Dhabi', especially at such expense?

I have a friend who is a partner in a top investment firm and he tells me that Abu Dhabi are not interested in foriegn investment or shared enterprise. They buy what they like, including expertise. In short they are almost never partners, always sole owners. In international business circles, Abu Dhabi are known as buyers, not investors.

They sell oil, which needs no marketing.

So, if Abu Dhabi are not aiming to attract investment and do not care if you buy their oil or not because someone else will, why would they need a football club to advertise themselves?

 

[SWP's back]

I personally agree with Peter Jones when he was on James Corden's world cup show, saying that it's a stupid idea to buy a club.

But the people owning big clubs are still astute business men. Whether the aim is to make a profit or avoid a net loss, the principles of valuation and return required on investment (whether it be nought instead of +£1m) remain the same. For people like our owners of Abramovich or Glazers even - the aim of a football club in the portfolio is to increase the brand value of other businesses owned. Our owners are using city to develop the image of Abu Dhabi, for instance. Glazers are just mad, on the other side of the spectrum.

Even without aiming to make financial gain from the project itself - the reasons behind ownership and the very core strategy of the business - are still profit driven. Wigan and Arsenal have made stable profits recently. Financial Fair Play rules will make it easier for others to as well. Clubs in a debt free situation with a good foundation might well be turning in good money soon. Like us. even.

I have a question.

Why would our owners want or need to 'promote the image of Abu Dhabi', especially at such expense?

I have a friend who is a partner in a top investment firm and he tells me that Abu Dhabi are not interested in foriegn investment or shared enterprise. They buy what they like, including expertise. In short they are almost never partners, always sole owners. In international business circles, Abu Dhabi are known as buyers, not investors.

They sell oil, which needs no marketing.

So, if Abu Dhabi are not aiming to attract investment and do not care if you buy their oil or not because someone else will, why would they need a football club to advertise themselves?

Promoting Abu Dhabi as a tourist destination is not the same as looking for foreign investment (although your friend is not 100% accurate, all contries look for foreign investment and Abu Dhabi is no different).

As for the Oil needing no marketing comment, that is incredibly simplistic. The oil will not last forever (see Dubai) and Abu Dhabi is trying to use its massive surplus now to protect itself for the time when the pipelines run empty.

If it didn't attract outside investment and tourism then it would only be a matter of time before it went back to a 3rd world country with little or no infrastructure. Crops can't be grown there and it is not big on manufacture. All it has at present is oil and it wishes to be less dependant on oil in the future.

 

[mammutly]

I have a question.

Why would our owners want or need to 'promote the image of Abu Dhabi', especially at such expense?

I have a friend who is a partner in a top investment firm and he tells me that Abu Dhabi are not interested in foriegn investment or shared enterprise. They buy what they like, including expertise. In short they are almost never partners, always sole owners. In international business circles, Abu Dhabi are known as buyers, not investors.

They sell oil, which needs no marketing.

So, if Abu Dhabi are not aiming to attract investment and do not care if you buy their oil or not because someone else will, why would they need a football club to advertise themselves?

Promoting Abu Dhabi as a tourist destination is not the same as looking for foreign investment (although your friend is not 100% accurate, all contries look for foreign investment and Abu Dhabi is no different).

As for the Oil needing no marketing comment, that is incredibly simplistic. The oil will not last forever (see Dubai) and Abu Dhabi is trying to use its massive surplus now to protect itself for the time when the pipelines run empty.

If it didn't attract outside investment and tourism then it would only be a matter of time before it went back to a 3rd world country with little or no infrastructure. Crops can't be grown there and it is not big on manufacture. All it has at present is oil and it wishes to be less dependant on oil in the future.

Sorry mate, but I am sure that Abu Dhabi are not selling business interests to foriegn investors.

As for oil needing no marketing, I think you've missed my point. Oil sells at a price set by OPEC, it doesn't need advertising/marketing. What may happen when it eventually runs out is a totally separate issue.

 

[SWP's back]

Promoting Abu Dhabi as a tourist destination is not the same as looking for foreign investment (although your friend is not 100% accurate, all contries look for foreign investment and Abu Dhabi is no different).

As for the Oil needing no marketing comment, that is incredibly simplistic. The oil will not last forever (see Dubai) and Abu Dhabi is trying to use its massive surplus now to protect itself for the time when the pipelines run empty.

If it didn't attract outside investment and tourism then it would only be a matter of time before it went back to a 3rd world country with little or no infrastructure. Crops can't be grown there and it is not big on manufacture. All it has at present is oil and it wishes to be less dependant on oil in the future.

Sorry mate, but I am sure that Abu Dhabi are not selling business interests to foriegn investors.

As for oil needing no marketing, I think you've missed my point. Oil sells at a price set by OPEC, it doesn't need advertising/marketing. What may happen when it eventually runs out is a totally separate issue.

whooooooooooooosh

 

[mammutly]

Sorry mate, but I am sure that Abu Dhabi are not selling business interests to foriegn investors.

As for oil needing no marketing, I think you've missed my point. Oil sells at a price set by OPEC, it doesn't need advertising/marketing. What may happen when it eventually runs out is a totally separate issue.

whooooooooooooosh

Maybe you'd be gracious enough to humour me with the reasons why you believe your supposed logic has escaped me?

Come on! People are watching. I'm sure they'd love to see you show me up.

 

[SWP's back]

whooooooooooooosh

Maybe you'd be gracious enough to humour me with the reasons why you believe your supposed logic has escaped me?

Come on! People are watching. I'm sure they'd love to see you show me up.

Oil needs no marketing. No one has said that it does. No one is arguing the OPEC do not set the prices. None of this has anything to do with the price of eggs.

Buying Man City has put Abu Dhabi on the map and in terms of media coverage, has been much cheaper than many other business ventures. Abu Dhabi is looking to the future and to what will provide for its citizens after oil. Tourism is one of these areas. So far it appears to be working.


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guide2dubai.com/257-Tourist-arrivals-in-Abu-Dhabi-increases.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guide2dubai.com/257-Tourist- ... eases.html</a>

Tourist arrivals in Abu Dhabi increases



Abu Dhabi will be further benefited from the increase in Middle East tourism, and aviation sector, which is performing in an excellent manner in comparison with the global average. Also, the current projects in Abu Dhabi, which are worth more than $200 billion, are further expected to boost the business travel segment in Abu Dhabi.

Abu Dhabi witnessed an increase of 12 percent (1.34 million) in tourist arrivals last year, in comparison to the year 2005 (1.21 million), as per the ADTA (Abu Dhabi Tourism Authority) data. The guests for over-night stay in the hotels recorded an eleven percent rise, touching 3.9 million in 2006, as against 3.5 million during 2005.


The Government of Abu Dhabi is investing about $6.8billion in development of airport, so that the existing facility can further serve more than 50 million passengers a year. On comparison of the tourism figures of the past ten years of Abu Dhabi, a seventeen percent growth has been observed during 2006.


Among the visitors to Abu Dhabi, British Nationals form the majority with 35 percent, followed by 31 percent from Germany, and seven percent from the US. Abu Dhabi, which covers more than seventy percent of the desertland of UAE, is known as a high potential ‘sleeping giant’. The current master-planned projects are likely to cater to major international and regional visitors during the coming years. This could be boosted up with the expansion plans of Etihad Airways network, which could, in all possibility, help the emirate to turn into an aviation hub.

Foreign investment is another and I can assure you that they ARE looking for foreign investment (my company for one invests there), here are some bits of reading for you:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.propertyweek.com/abu-dhabi%E2%80%99s-foreign-policy/3159161.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.propertyweek.com/abu-dhabi%E ... 61.article</a>

The emirate’s government hopes its investment zones will encourage foreign companies to take part in its ambitious 2030 development plan


If Dubai was the reckless gambler who bet everything and lost big at the Middle East casino, then Abu Dhabi was the restrained observer who kept his chips in his pocket until he understood the true measure of the game.

As its neighbour copes with the fallout from its property boom, Abu Dhabi is embarking on its equally bombastic 2030 plan. This aims to provide the oil-rich emirate with a central business district, a cultural destination and commercial and residential space.

Abu Dhabi’s government has set up nine investment zones in which it has relaxed the emirate’s restrictions on foreign ownership of assets. Usually, only companies wholly owned by United Arab Emirates or Gulf Co-operation Council nationals can own freeholds, but now companies with an element of foreign ownership can invest in a form of long leasehold.

For the first time, in certain areas of Abu Dhabi — foreign companies will be able to lease plots of lands and develop their own projects. There will also be the prospect of an institutional investment market where these leases can be bought and sold.

None of this is strictly important for the topic but explains the whooosh before.