Harsh on Kane- under Enrique (or any of hundreds of other managers) he would score plenty. Torres is great but we do still need a Kane-level striker IMO.
My hope is that Ferran will get at least 25 league starts next season. If we can't get one of Kane, Haaland or Lukaku (and I assume we won't, given the strict transfer policies under which we're run) I would honestly rather give Torres a go in the striker role than get anyone else. He has the makings of a phenomenal striker and may just need to be given a chance. Could be at least equal to Jesus on the goalscoring front.
I’d say he was a tidy finisher with a poacher’s instincts, but there’s a lot more to being a striker than that, never mind a phenomenal one. Needs to get far more involved in games for starters, and until he does I’d be amazed if he starts 25 league games next season.
First season in a strange league though and having to adapt to a visionary manager will have been tough, so fingers crossed for next season
His movement and composure in front of goal are very good, but still not sure he offers enough otherwise to playing as a striker. I think maybe back in the day he'd have been excellent in a front two partnering a target man, but as a lone centre forward I don't think he's the type to play back-to-goal and bring players into the game enough
Gabby's all-round game is much better than Ferran's at the momentWe start Gabriel Jesus at striker. The bar is extremely low at the moment when it comes to getting involved in games.
We start Gabriel Jesus at striker. The bar is extremely low at the moment when it comes to getting involved in games.
I'd agree with that. Jesus is not a great striker if the ball and he also can't head it. But he does everything else brilliantly. Torres has shown me enough to believe he will be a big player for us but as a wide(ish) man like Foden or Sterling.I don’t think Jesus is the greatest striker in the world (he always strikes me as a scuffer of the ball rather than a thumper of it), but he’s a tenacious bastard outside the box. I share Pep’s view that he’s one of the best pressing forwards in the business. Still some way ahead of Torres for me
Gabby's all-round game is much better than Ferran's at the moment
Is it though? How many chances does he actually create? How many attacks does he take part in without losing the ball?
On paper Jesus is the most well-rounded striker in the world. On paper he's got it all- passing, pressing, positioning, running, finishing, hold-up play, dribbling. On the pitch it's been years since he regularly actually played at that standard.
I’d say he was a tidy finisher with a poacher’s instincts, but there’s a lot more to being a striker than that, never mind a phenomenal one. Needs to get far more involved in games for starters, and until he does I’d be amazed if he starts 25 league games next season.
First season in a strange league though and having to adapt to a visionary manager will have been tough, so fingers crossed for next season
His movement and composure in front of goal are very good, but still not sure he offers enough otherwise to playing as a striker. I think maybe back in the day he'd have been excellent in a front two partnering a target man, but as a lone centre forward I don't think he's the type to play back-to-goal and bring players into the game enough
Don’t usually disagree with you Dom but I do here. I thought the first time I saw him play his movement was like a centre forward. Wasn’t he playing no.9 v Newcastle?He's an inside forward.
He's never a striker in a million years, it takes a lot more than having the instincts to be good finisher to make a number 9 and Torres doesn't have any of the other skills, we saw that when he was actually played up front.
But he could develop into the kind of secondary goalscorer Sterling is. He desperately needs to learn when to get in the box, that's something Sterling had to learn and spoke openly about.
I think when he plays more and with more confidence people will realise he's not a striker, the thing is that last season he was so peripheral in games he'd do almost nothing, pop up with a goal and people assume that makes him a striker. He'll start dribbling more and creating more as he gets confident and when we have a proper structure to the team as well with a proper number 9 up front.
Don’t usually disagree with you Dom but I do here. I thought the first time I saw him play his movement was like a centre forward. Wasn’t he playing no.9 v Newcastle?
I have much the same feelings as you on this.He's an inside forward.
He's never a striker in a million years, it takes a lot more than having the instincts to be good finisher to make a number 9 and Torres doesn't have any of the other skills, we saw that when he was actually played up front.
I don't see him learning all of those skills here, the only person I've ever seen really do it was Griezmann at Atletico. He was not a million miles away from Torres when he was at Real Sociedad and Simeone spent years converting him into almost a number 9.
Torres could develop into the kind of secondary goalscorer Sterling is. He desperately needs to learn when to get in the box, that's something Sterling had to learn and spoke openly about, but we've seen it happen.
I think when he plays more and with more confidence people will realise he's not a striker, the thing is that last season he was so peripheral in games he'd do almost nothing, pop up with a goal and people assume that makes him a striker. He'll start dribbling more and creating more as he gets confident and when we have a proper structure to the team as well with a proper number 9 up front.
He was playing RW with Jesus up front that match although they did rotate.
I just think there's so much more to CF play than he has. He can't play with his back to goal, he can't occupy a pair of centre-backs, he doesn't make runs to create space for other people, he doesn't drop back to help the midfield when he sees they're under pressure.
Cristiano Ronaldo has incredible movement and finishing, but you'd never play him as a centre-forward - well Real and Portugal both tried at various points and it didn't go well.
At Valencia, Torres was much more of a traditional wide attacking midfield/winger and I think when we start playing with a world class 9 and he plays his natural game more and the striker idea will melt away fast.
I think it's just the kind of idea that was thrown into the air when we had no fit strikers and were missing one.
I'll happily hold my hands up if I'm wrong though and he's leading the line in a few years!
You guys make it sound like that he has weaknesses, and that he can't improve them.I have much the same feelings as you on this.
If you take away the goals there's nothing about him that says striker. Up until 2008 that would've been a redundant point but these days being a striker is more than just goals.
With Torres, he's definitely got what it takes to be a goalscoring player of some kind, but as a striker literally every single game that he doesn't score he's going to stink the place out because he's spent his career as a winger so doing the non-goalscoring stuff as a striker will be alien to him.
You've actually typed out the additional points I was going to make immediately above as I was typing this post out!
Basically all the stuff Torres wouldn't do right there is all the stuff most people don't notice Jesus does rather well at times.
It's a shame you can't just fuse Torres and Jesus sometimes. You'd have a complete winger or striker for whatever the occasion calls for.
I’m loathed to say it but an excellent false 9You guys make it sound like that he has weaknesses, and that he can't improve them.
He isn't complete as a forward of course, because he rarely plays there and has likely never been coached there.
But he shows alot of promise, since his positioning and goal scoring, which are THE most important traits of a striker, and hardest to train, are there.
The other parts to his game can improve, maybe not to Jesus levels or a general elite level, but they are typically easier to improve than finishing or positioning, which are usually more based on instinct and difficult to teach.
Given Pep’s penchant for the false 9, I think Torres is an excellent prospect for making those runs.He's an inside forward.
He's never a striker in a million years, it takes a lot more than having the instincts to be good finisher to make a number 9 and Torres doesn't have any of the other skills, we saw that when he was actually played up front.
I don't see him learning all of those skills here, the only person I've ever seen really do it was Griezmann at Atletico. He was not a million miles away from Torres when he was at Real Sociedad and Simeone spent years converting him into almost a number 9.
Torres could develop into the kind of secondary goalscorer Sterling is. He desperately needs to learn when to get in the box, that's something Sterling had to learn and spoke openly about, but we've seen it happen.
I think when he plays more and with more confidence people will realise he's not a striker, the thing is that last season he was so peripheral in games he'd do almost nothing, pop up with a goal and people assume that makes him a striker. He'll start dribbling more and creating more as he gets confident and when we have a proper structure to the team as well with a proper number 9 up front.