#47 | Phil Foden - 2019/20 Performances

[WallyA]

Sometimes, people forget Foden is STILL a kid, and he is playing in a world class squad run by the supposed best coach in the world. He is being nurtured so that he never looks out of place and develops the football brain needed to walk in the shoes he is being tasked to fill.

Lest anyone forget, Sheikh Mansour bought City to create a global football empire that is both successful and self-sustaining. The CFA is an integral part of that empire, in that it is designed to contribute to the bottom line, by developing talent that can be brought through to the first team squad OR sold on to recoup investment and provide the profits that help us both meet FFP and pay for the world class talent we “import” into CFG.

Today, we believe Phil Foden should be the former, and a regular first team player, but his story is still to be written. He may become the next Colin Bell, but he may not. He is young and his talent is still to mature.pep has made clear he believes in his talent, but Pep also has a full squad of players and he clearly TRUSTS a smaller cadre than the 21-25 players on the list, which is why he has always sought a tight squad of about 16 players whom he can utilize in the ways he needs them to perform for him. Fernandinho is the perfect example.

We will discover if Foden is the “real deal” when he starts to win MOTM awards, can come on and change a game, and can start and not look out of place REGULARLY. IMHO, he isn’t there yet. I hope this last section of the season allows him the opportunity to further develop ON THE FIELD, so that we can all see whether he really can fill what is about to become a ridiculously large hole in our midfield when The Magician finally hangs it up.

Nobody develops if they don't play simple as that.

We have already seen MANY games where Foden has been the standout player on our team, obviously he isn't going to be the best player every game, but we have seen it many times.

There is simply no logic to Pep's decisions regarding Foden, you are right he goes by a certain core of the team he trusts and never deviates, he goes by feeling (or emotion). Logically Foden is simply more direct, quicker, and tricker than Gundogan. Foden is the "real deal".

Playing Gundogan as an attacking midfielder ahead of Foden has time and again shown to be a terrible idea, yet Pep persists simply because he likes Gundogan. I like Gundogan too... just NOT as an attacking midfielder.

This is his 4th year and I think of it like this, has Pep developed any youth that wasn't going to naturally get better anyway?

Sane --> Tore it up at Schalke so obviously just continued on here
Sterling --> Played at Liverpool for years before, but yes, I'll give credit to Pep (and Mikel) they did probably improve more than if he was somewhere else
Jesus --->... No (still great though) and was Brazil's no9 when brought in
Stones --->... No (considered England's most promising cb prospect 6 years ago)

Tactically Pep is obviously a genius, but in developing players (like our youth), I am disappointed.

 

[itisrising]

Sometimes, people forget Foden is STILL a kid, and he is playing in a world class squad run by the supposed best coach in the world. He is being nurtured so that he never looks out of place and develops the football brain needed to walk in the shoes he is being tasked to fill.

Lest anyone forget, Sheikh Mansour bought City to create a global football empire that is both successful and self-sustaining. The CFA is an integral part of that empire, in that it is designed to contribute to the bottom line, by developing talent that can be brought through to the first team squad OR sold on to recoup investment and provide the profits that help us both meet FFP and pay for the world class talent we “import” into CFG.

Today, we believe Phil Foden should be the former, and a regular first team player, but his story is still to be written. He may become the next Colin Bell, but he may not. He is young and his talent is still to mature.pep has made clear he believes in his talent, but Pep also has a full squad of players and he clearly TRUSTS a smaller cadre than the 21-25 players on the list, which is why he has always sought a tight squad of about 16 players whom he can utilize in the ways he needs them to perform for him. Fernandinho is the perfect example.

We will discover if Foden is the “real deal” when he starts to win MOTM awards, can come on and change a game, and can start and not look out of place REGULARLY. IMHO, he isn’t there yet. I hope this last section of the season allows him the opportunity to further develop ON THE FIELD, so that we can all see whether he really can fill what is about to become a ridiculously large hole in our midfield when The Magician finally hangs it up.

I totally understand the sentiment behind this post and it was a narrative I followed until it became clear it was just not true.

Firstly, age is irrelevant. If a player is good enough and can help the team, that is all that matters. In Foden's case, we have seen numerous times this season that he is more than good enough to be an actual member of this first team squad; something he is not right now. Foden's stats in the CL said it all, creating the most chances in open play despite only starting 2 CL games. And this is the issue currently, there is no linear progression between Foden's performances and him being given more of a chance. How can that be good for his development?! In fact, he has made the least number of starts this season of our squad. It seems Pep is just as concerned with developing Foden as he is Bravo, a soon to be 37 year old goalkeeper that has no business playing in a top league.

And to compound this, we're 22 points behind the Liverpool with several underperforming players given chance after chance and Pep has shown zero initiative in developing our future talents. Pep saying he trusts Foden means nothing when he has shown he clearly doesn't. And it's not as if Pep has credit in the bank when it comes to developing young players; he hasn't once successfully integrated an academy player in the first team. How can you claim Foden is Silva's replacement and yet give him 2 PL starts? It's totally disingenuous and means alot of fans like myself don't have faith in Pep to help players bridge the gap between youth football and first team. He's quite simply stunting Foden's progress and he won't be here in 18 months time. We just need to hope Foden sticks around until he's 21 so the next manager can give him an actual opportunity.

 

[BosnianBlue]

I agree that he doesn't play close enough of what he should play now when the title is gone, but I think people are seriously overrating his performances regularly. Apart of 1 or 2 meaningful matches where he was really good, the rest were pretty average and if he wasn't Phil Foden, he'd get lot of critics for such perfoormances. Since he is Phil Foden, any average match he plays, the most people put him in top 2-3 players on that day. The rest of good games were against lower quality opposition and are not the real thing to value him on. And he was average in some of those too.

He still has lot, lot to prove. He'll need to play to do that, but we all know it's not easy to get that playing time in this team and with pep, if you're not having top games regularly. Unless you're Sterling. Or Gundo :D

If we do buy player(s) around his position, then it's worry time for him though. If he's supposed to take off from Silva, then any player shouldn't be bought on that position.

 

[itisrising]

I agree that he doesn't play close enough of what he should play now when the title is gone, but I think people are seriously overrating his performances regularly. Apart of 1 or 2 meaningful matches where he was really good, the rest were pretty average and if he wasn't Phil Foden, he'd get lot of critics for such perfoormances. Since he is Phil Foden, any average match he plays, the most people put him in top 2-3 players on that day. The rest of good games were against lower quality opposition and are not the real thing to value him on. And he was average in some of those too.

He still has lot, lot to prove. He'll need to play to do that, but we all know it's not easy to get that playing time in this team and with pep, if you're not having top games regularly. Unless you're Sterling. Or Gundo :D

If we do buy player(s) around his position, then it's worry time for him though. If he's supposed to take off from Silva, then any player shouldn't be bought on that position.

Guardiola said: "I don't know. I have an idea but not even had contact from anyone in terms of that because, during the season, I am not too much ready to think about that. Of course, we have to do something because David (Silva) is leaving and in some positions'....

 

[WallyA]

I agree that he doesn't play close enough of what he should play now when the title is gone, but I think people are seriously overrating his performances regularly. Apart of 1 or 2 meaningful matches where he was really good, the rest were pretty average and if he wasn't Phil Foden, he'd get lot of critics for such perfoormances. Since he is Phil Foden, any average match he plays, the most people put him in top 2-3 players on that day. The rest of good games were against lower quality opposition and are not the real thing to value him on. And he was average in some of those too.

He still has lot, lot to prove. He'll need to play to do that, but we all know it's not easy to get that playing time in this team and with pep, if you're not having top games regularly. Unless you're Sterling. Or Gundo :D

If we do buy player(s) around his position, then it's worry time for him though. If he's supposed to take off from Silva, then any player shouldn't be bought on that position.

Fair enough.

What I'd say though is should he have critics if he has average performances for us (at 19)? Usually you criticize mistakes not normality for someone of his age.

You can only beat whats in front of you, so even things like cup games shouldn't be used against him as "useless" to evaluate him. What does it say about the other players that Foden is the best on the pitch in a cup game, either A) They are not motivated / don't care as much as Foden or B) are not as good as Foden in that game, either scenario is favourable to Foden.

Also I don't think even in other games he has been overrated, for a guy who barely gets chances to play, at 19 if you are average in this team, that is actually an achievement, no? His pressing is really good, finishing technique is solid, and he is a very direct dribbler. These are the main things I noticed from his little game time. He has mistakes but everybody does, and everybody can improve, whether they are 19 or 29.

Not really sure I understand your point about "alot to prove" as you seem to back track on it by then saying "if you're not having top games regularly", so how can he prove himself without games (which you also say)?

I think we feel the same way about Phil and opportunities, but I may be reading it wrong.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

How is he meant to prove this if he doesn't play?

Every day in training. That’s where you earn the right to play.

 

[Phil1]

Every day in training. That’s where you earn the right to play.

You’d think that something as simple as this would be roundly recognised to be true.
It seems it doesn’t factor into people’s thinking when it comes to Foden.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Nobody develops if they don't play simple as that.

Tactically Pep is obviously a genius, but in developing players (like our youth), I am disappointed.

What makes those tactics “genius” is the fact that he has the players he needs in the positions he needs them to make the tactics work. He obviously feels Foden is not quite there yet, even while bigging up his potential.

I get that locals want him in the team. I’m merely pointing out that there are reasons why that has not happened with greater frequency, while hoping he continues to perform and improve, thus making the leap into the team as a regular starter.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I totally understand the sentiment behind this post and it was a narrative I followed until it became clear it was just not true.

Firstly, age is irrelevant. If a player is good enough and can help the team, that is all that matters.

I agree, and he does. He just isn’t a load carrying member yet.

In Foden's case, we have seen numerous times this season that he is more than good enough to be an actual member of this first team squad; something he is not right now.

Err, yes he is.

Foden's stats in the CL said it all, creating the most chances in open play despite only starting 2 CL games. And this is the issue currently, there is no linear progression between Foden's performances and him being given more of a chance. How can that be good for his development?! In fact, he has made the least number of starts this season of our squad. It seems Pep is just as concerned with developing Foden as he is Bravo, a soon to be 37 year old goalkeeper that has no business playing in a top league.

And here I was thinking we were having an intelligent discussion. He’s not in the first team squad, but he plays in the CL? Bravo being developed?

And to compound this, we're 22 points behind the Liverpool with several underperforming players given chance after chance and Pep has shown zero initiative in developing our future talents. Pep saying he trusts Foden means nothing when he has shown he clearly doesn't. And it's not as if Pep has credit in the bank when it comes to developing young players; he hasn't once successfully integrated an academy player in the first team. How can you claim Foden is Silva's replacement and yet give him 2 PL starts? It's totally disingenuous and means alot of fans like myself don't have faith in Pep to help players bridge the gap between youth football and first team. He's quite simply stunting Foden's progress and he won't be here in 18 months time. We just need to hope Foden sticks around until he's 21 so the next manager can give him an actual opportunity.

Err, OK? Can Foden play CB? He might get a game if he can!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You’d think that something as simple as this would be roundly recognised to be true.
It seems it doesn’t factor into people’s thinking when it comes to Foden.

Some people still feel the specter of the whole “Class of ‘92” BS and, I guess, long for the days of Nicky Reid and Steve Kinsey! For others, they must simply want to be able to brag we have a Stockport lad in the team, so ignore the £billion spent on world class players from elsewhere.

I don’t really know what people see that I don’t, but I do know he goes missing, or gets “lost” on the field, quite a lot. When that happens with a youngster, they often don’t get the benefit of the doubt, because they haven’t built the years of a reserve of trust from which a manager can make a withdrawal.

That said, I’ve also seen him make great runs, make incisive passes and he can shoot from outside (a trait I like immensely), so we all know he CAN perform, but he doesn’t do that in every game and take those opportunities every time he is given them. A top class professional does, because he is comfortable in his own skin, he can produce his talent every day...on the training pitch and in a game...because it is ingrained in him, it is his habit, he can do most of it without thinking. I just don’t think Foden has built the reserve of that type of experience (I know, I know) yet that gets him on the team sheet week in week out, but it’s coming.

There is clearly a deep reserve of love for the lad, and he will get every opportunity from the fans to be successful. However, it will be interesting to see and hear the fans having a go at him, and they will, and how long it takes for him to be treated like everyone else. He is young. His time is coming, both at City and with England. He shouldn’t be in a rush to get there until he is absolutely ready, because this game can chew you up and spit you out quicker than you can say “Done!”