#5 | John Stones - 2020/21 Performances

[SebastianBlue]

Stones getting excessively praised for narrowly getting himself out of disasters he created himself might well be one of the reasons he never grew up and cut them out of his game. So far, anyway.

I knew it wouldn’t last.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I am also a member of the vocal minority supporting Stones — we all caught quite a bit of abuse for it.

@asahartford1 Cheers for the reminder.

Always been a fan of Stones. He really does give 100% every time he crosses the white line.

I really don't like calling players out when they have a dip in performance, because I guarantee not a single one of us on here have been perfect 100% of the time at work. We all have our off days and issues that affect our performance.

 

[domalino]

I knew it wouldn’t last.

Look, I was a big time John Stones supporter, took a lot of shit for it over the years and one of the first in with praise for his recent performances, and even in that thread you posted from the transfer forum I said he was definitely staying this season.

But I laid out my position on Stones a long time ago...I'm not getting invested in him. If he comes back, great. If not, it no longer matters, we have 3 reliable centrebacks. If he does come back, I think it's quite likely he leaves anyway given his contract length, age and the 2 players ahead of him.

He also gets a massive free ride on here compared to other players for acting out in his personal life and letting it takeover and effect his professional life, which a few others in the squad would/do get absolutely murdered for.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Look, I was one of the first in with praise for his recent performances, and even in that thread you posted I said he was definitely staying this season.

I laid out my position on Stones a long time ago...I'm not getting invested in him. If he comes back, great. If not, it no longer matters, we have 3 reliable centrebacks.

I didn’t post the thread, mate, only commented on it.

But fair enough.

I will just say that I think there is an argument to be made that it probably also doesn’t help his progress that no matter how well he plays certain quarters of the media *and* City supporters always return back to the times he played poorly as evidence that he’ll always be ****.

I know I have been guilty of doing that with other players (I am sure @mccity will jump in to fill in the blanks here) and it is something I am trying to improve on personally.

I’ve also had life changing events over the past few years that have profoundly altered my perspective on life and, subsequently, football (and still are). That is especially the case when it comes to the manner and extent to which psychological struggles impact your physical well-being/performance and vice versa. So I perhaps take a more forgiving stance with most people and happenings than I did even a year ago (with a few prominent exceptions).

Then again, I’ve also prominently spoken of my love for football waning, so it is obviously going to be easier for me to have less extreme opinions of individual player’s performances and thus be, on balance, more supportive.

At any rate, I sincerely hope Stones goes on to be the world class defender many of us believe he has it in him to be.

He still has time and City will likely benefit, whether he fully achieves his potential with us or somewhere else.

Edit: @domalino just saw the edits you made to your post after I had quoted to compose my response but I don’t think any of my response changes based on your expanded view. If anything, my diatribe about my perspective slowly becoming more moderate when it comes to individual player’s performance is now in line with your final sentence. Though, I am not sure Stones, of all players, gets as much of a free ride on here or the media as you assert (especially with the latter collective). It seems we agree about wanting him to succeed and that it may not necessarily be at City in the long term.

 

[cjn]

Always been a fan of Stones. He really does give 100% every time he crosses the white line.

I really don't like calling players out when they have a dip in performance, because I guarantee not a single one of us on here have been perfect 100% of the time at work. We all have our off days and issues that affect our performance.

I've been a fan of his also, but let's be real, it'd been more than a dip in performance. It'd been almost two years of largely self inflicted issues with injuries on top of it. Hopefully he's on the other side of it now, but lets not pretend he didn't deserve criticism.

 

[GBrannan]

I've been a fan of his also, but let's be real, it'd been more than a dip in performance. It'd been almost two years of largely self inflicted issues with injuries on top of it. Hopefully he's on the other side of it now, but lets not pretend he didn't deserve criticism.

Very true. He’s had previous runs of 6-8 games in a season where he’s looked excellent. He then picks up an injury that keeps him out for several weeks and then comes back looking a shadow of the player we saw earlier in that same season.

I’m hopeful that with a better support cast of centre backs around him that he can avoid injury in the first place by being rotated.

One other factor with Stones to potentially note is players and their improved level of performance during the final 2 years of an existing contract. Lots of examples of a real uptick in performance to get that new deal or big move and then a revert to type once they’ve got it. It’s a very big 18 months or so for Stones.

 

[mccity]

I didn’t post the thread, mate, only commented on it.

But fair enough.

I will just say that I think there is an argument to be made that it probably also doesn’t help his progress that no matter how well he plays certain quarters of the media *and* City supporters always return back to the times he played poorly as evidence that he’ll always be ****.

I know I have been guilty of doing that with other players (I am sure @mccity will jump in to fill in the blanks here) and it is something I am trying to improve on personally.

I’ve also had life changing events over the past few years that have profoundly altered my perspective on life and, subsequently, football (and still are). That is especially the case when it comes to the manner and extent to which psychological struggles impact your physical well-being/performance and vice versa. So I perhaps take a more forgiving stance with most people and happenings than I did even a year ago (with a few prominent exceptions).

Then again, I’ve also prominently spoken of my love for football waning, so it is obviously going to be easier for me to have less extreme opinions of individual player’s performances and thus be, on balance, more supportive.

At any rate, I sincerely hope Stones goes on to be the world class defender many of us believe he has it in him to be.

He still has time and City will likely benefit, whether he fully achieves his potential with us or somewhere else.

In general, a lot of my gripes with over the top criticism centre around the complete lack of empathy. Somebody made a comment recently on here about players not being treated like humans and it shows. Fair criticism is ok (it really is!) and even a negative outlook is fine, but some stuff is too far.
Saying a mediocre Zinchenko performance is the worst they've ever seen is ridiculous. Saying things like the team wins in spite of Gundogan is so wrong. Actively pushing for Sterling and Mahrez to be sold every time they have 2-3 less than stellar games on the trot is so annoying. Blaming Lillo for everything that's gone wrong since he arrived is nonsensical. People begging for Walker to be sold after his misdemeanours was childish. The 100 threads asking why everyone in the team is shit after every non-winning result is crazy. I could go on for so much longer.

I wince at some of my older comments on these forums and even today I get annoyed at some of the things I write. I'm extremely fortunate that from around 2014-2016 I was surrounded by very wise folk that made me realise a few things about the world.


And it's different to actually going to games and hearing these hot takes. When you're watching a game you're prone to blurting things out. Here you actually have to think about what you're saying type everything out and then press send. But when you combine the internet, an increasingly loud media, and social media (especially anonymous ones like this) your bound to create a culture that fosters these mentalities in general.

So with regards to Stones's or anyone else's personal life, for some it just gets caught up in the tide of everything else.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I didn’t post the thread, mate, only commented on it.

But fair enough.

I will just say that I think there is an argument to be made that it probably also doesn’t help his progress that no matter how well he plays certain quarters of the media *and* City supporters always return back to the times he played poorly as evidence that he’ll always be ****.

I know I have been guilty of doing that with other players (I am sure @mccity will jump in to fill in the blanks here) and it is something I am trying to improve on personally.

I’ve also had life changing events over the past few years that have profoundly altered my perspective on life and, subsequently, football (and still are). That is especially the case when it comes to the manner and extent to which psychological struggles impact your physical well-being/performance and vice versa. So I perhaps take a more forgiving stance with most people and happenings than I did even a year ago (with a few prominent exceptions).

Then again, I’ve also prominently spoken of my love for football waning, so it is obviously going to be easier for me to have less extreme opinions of individual player’s performances and thus be, on balance, more supportive.

At any rate, I sincerely hope Stones goes on to be the world class defender many of us believe he has it in him to be.

He still has time and City will likely benefit, whether he fully achieves his potential with us or somewhere else.

I have been delighted at his performances the last couple of games but just as pleased at the fact that you can see he looks better, healthier and happier than I have seen him in a while. The boy looked ill last season so it is hardly surprising his performance and fitness suffered. I am gradually starting to enjoy football a little more since Pep renewed. The team is slowly getting their mojo back, the PL is wide open this season. I even quite enjoyed the Porto game despite the cheating by refs and other team. I am just so looking forward to when some form of normality returns and we can get back to watching it live and we can see old friends again.

 

[sir baconface]

He also gets a massive free ride on here compared to other players for acting out in his personal life and letting it takeover and effect his professional life, which a few others in the squad would/do get absolutely murdered for.

Free ride? Hardly. He’s had a welter of criticism on here.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I've been a fan of his also, but let's be real, it'd been more than a dip in performance. It'd been almost two years of largely self inflicted issues with injuries on top of it. Hopefully he's on the other side of it now, but lets not pretend he didn't deserve criticism.

To be fair, I don’t think most of us posting about continually supporting Stones over the years are arguing he didn’t deserve criticism for his various poor performances or personal frailties. In fact, many of us have criticised him for them. As @mccity eloquently said, “fair criticism is ok”.

I am only personally arguing that with players like Stones certain elements of the media and City supporters make it difficult for him (and other players) to ever move past that discrete criticism or the general label of being “poor”, regardless of later performance. As others have said, players are often treated as less “human” than the rest of us, for better or worse — often worse when it comes to expectations that they perform at the highest possible level all the time or they are “shit”. Again, I know I have been guilty of this in the past and I am trying to improve there, not least because I am having to struggle through seeing my abilities degrade by the month. It’s a humbling experience that certainly alters your perception of many things, including your own tendency toward being overly critical of your idols, in this case sporting role models.

Some of the higher standards of expected behaviour obviously come with the role and are perfectly reasonable — they knew they would be under a higher level of scrutiny when aspiring to be a top class footballer. But some of it is genuinely over the top (i.e. beyond normal human capacity/ability to meet) and contributes to unreasonable pressures on public figures which can, in turn, lead to very unpleasant outcomes.

In general, a lot of my gripes with over the top criticism centre around the complete lack of empathy. Somebody made a comment recently on here about players not being treated like humans and it shows. Fair criticism is ok (it really is!) and even a negative outlook is fine, but some stuff is too far.
Saying a mediocre Zinchenko performance is the worst they've ever seen is ridiculous. Saying things like the team wins in spite of Gundogan is so wrong. Actively pushing for Sterling and Mahrez to be sold every time they have 2-3 less than stellar games on the trot is so annoying. Blaming Lillo for everything that's gone wrong since he arrived is nonsensical. People begging for Walker to be sold after his misdemeanours was childish. The 100 threads asking why everyone in the team is shit after every non-winning result is crazy. I could go on for so much longer.

I wince at some of my older comments on these forums and even today I get annoyed at some of the things I write. I'm extremely fortunate that from around 2014-2016 I was surrounded by very wise folk that made me realise a few things about the world.


And it's different to actually going to games and hearing these hot takes. When you're watching a game you're prone to blurting things out. Here you actually have to think about what you're saying type everything out and then press send. But when you combine the internet, an increasingly loud media, and social media (especially anonymous ones like this) your bound to create a culture that fosters these mentalities in general.

So with regards to Stones's or anyone else's personal life, for some it just gets caught up in the tide of everything else.

Great points, as usual. And I will freely admit I have been guilty of much of the unreasonable actions you describe.

I have been delighted at his performances the last couple of games but just as pleased at the fact that you can see he looks better, healthier and happier than I have seen him in a while. The boy looked ill last season so it is hardly surprising his performance and fitness suffered. I am gradually starting to enjoy football a little more since Pep renewed. The team is slowly getting their mojo back, the PL is wide open this season. I even quite enjoyed the Porto game despite the cheating by refs and other team. I am just so looking forward to when some form of normality returns and we can get back to watching it live and we can see old friends again.

I am glad to hear your enjoyment of football is slowly returning — I certainly hope mine does, as well, as I could very much use a sustainably pleasant distraction right now.