#5 | John Stones - 2021/22 Performances

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Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
To my mind, John is the classic example of a player who was good, for sure, who had potential, but whose career absolutely would not have developed at anything like the rate it has done had he not been with the group of players that he's been with, and the coach he's been with. I'm pretty sure he knows it. I'm not talking about the cups he's won, but his general nous as a footballer — his positional sense, his sense of when to commit totally to a tackle and when not, his confidence in his ability to distribute the ball intelligently, his communication with his fellow centre-half and full backs. All of that. He was merely a good centre-half at Everton, with some serious doubts about him. He is streets away from that now.
It's the more impressive in that his head wasn't in the right place for quite a while, his form was dreadful, and he came back from all that.
When you think how Stones got absolutely done by Falcao in that match against Monaco, way back in early 2017, I just don't see that happening now. Yes, he'll be beaten by forwards, as any central defender will, but not at that level of naivety.
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I don't disagree with the impact the team and the coach have had on how much he's improved, but I think it is important to remember he joined us at the age of 22.

I'm sure there have been young centre backs who were better than he was at that age, but for that position it's very young. Years away from being anywhere near his peak, and I'd worry about the physical and mental strength of any defender at that age playing at that level.

Just looking at our academy boys in the same position... Harwood Bellis is 20, Egan Riley 19.

At that age, Stones was in his first season in the Premier League, playing regularly in a good Everton side that ended up finishing 5th. The equivalent of playing for someone like West Ham or Tottenham or Arsenal now (none of whose current squads have a first team CB under 23).

Would any of our promising young defenders, dropped into that kind of situation now, come out of it looking better than Stones did? Would any young defender in the league?
 
Indaparkside said:
Edited for accuracy
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Can't bring myself to dislike him, honestly. Only one of them that seriously pisses me off is Salah, for his diving. Wouldn't mind having Van Dijk at our place. If only to keep the bench warm…
It's their thundercunt supporters I can't stand.
Oh and the whole silly circus around Liverpool F.C. that's orchestrated by the media both in the U.K. and much of the rest of the world, apparently.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Can't bring myself to dislike him, honestly. Only one of them that seriously pisses me off is Salah, for his diving. Wouldn't mind having Van Dijk at our place. If only to keep the bench warm…
It's their thundercunt supporters I can't stand.
Oh and the whole silly circus around Liverpool F.C. that's orchestrated by the media both in the U.K. and much of the rest of the world, apparently.
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Mané? Milner? Henderson? ROBERTSON?
 
Had less clue on the ball today then at any time I’ve seen him. Received the ball from the keeper, hold the ball until the press is close, play it back to the keeper who is now under pressure, repeat.

Need his head on straight soon or we will drop to 4th choice now Ake has settled and Diaz is back.
 
=scares the shit out of me when he looks so indecisive and slows the play down
 
Looked a bit shot mentally today after a colossal display in Madrid. I don’t think he coped well with being the obvious leader at the back and I think that affected him. I’ve never seen his distribution be so poor.
 
Katsunari Takayama said:
Looked a bit shot mentally today after a colossal display in Madrid. I don’t think he coped well with being the obvious leader at the back and I think that affected him. I’ve never seen his distribution be so poor.
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I think Stones is at his best alongside someone who is aggressive playing out of the back. Otamendi, Kompany, Laprte, Dias and even Maguire for England all do that. Ake is very good but he isn't like the others (at least yet). I think it put a bit more pressure on Stones than he's used to in being proactive which doesn't work for him.
 
SWP's back said:
Had less clue on the ball today then at any time I’ve seen him. Received the ball from the keeper, hold the ball until the press is close, play it back to the keeper who is now under pressure, repeat.

Need his head on straight soon or we will drop to 4th choice now Ake has settled and Diaz is back.
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I agree with what your saying about yesterday’s game in terms of passing, but I think your second point is a complete over reaction. It was one game, he’s been brilliant for a while now.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
I agree with what your saying about yesterday’s game in terms of passing, but I think your second point is a complete over reaction. It was one game, he’s been brilliant for a while now.
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He’s been our best player over the last month.
 
SWP's back said:
Had less clue on the ball today then at any time I’ve seen him. Received the ball from the keeper, hold the ball until the press is close, play it back to the keeper who is now under pressure, repeat.

Need his head on straight soon or we will drop to 4th choice now Ake has settled and Diaz is back.
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I thought this was the point to playing the way we do?

With pressing teams surely you want to draw them on, so you can play past them, or draw them to the where the ball was rather than where you're playing it? All our player do it all the time.
 
bluenova said:
I thought this was the point to playing the way we do?

With pressing teams surely you want to draw them on, so you can play past them, or draw them to the where the ball was rather than where you're playing it? All our player do it all the time.
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It is, when your keeper can play football with his feet, but when he does it with Steffen then it’s suicidal. He continued to do it after their second also.
 
SWP's back said:
It is, when your keeper can play football with his feet, but when he does it with Steffen then it’s suicidal. He continued to do it after their second also.
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We can't change the whole game plan because one player is shitting the bed whenever the ball comes near him. Stones isn't doing anything wrong by doing what he's supposed to do on the ball.
 
SWP's back said:
It is, when your keeper can play football with his feet, but when he does it with Steffen then it’s suicidal. He continued to do it after their second also.
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That second was awful, but it's not likely it was going to happen twice. We'd never change the way we play just because of one mistake - and we didn't do too badly in the second half. It's not like we had the height advantage to kick long every time.
 
Tugay One Cup said:
We can't change the whole game plan because one player is shitting the bed whenever the ball comes near him. Stones isn't doing anything wrong by doing what he's supposed to do on the ball.
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Disagree, there were often other passes on but Stones didn’t have the minerals to find them yesterday. This is probably the first time I’ve criticised Stones but yesterday his passing was wank. We lost the ball 3 times from his first 4 passes.
 
SWP's back said:
Disagree, there were often other passes on but Stones didn’t have the minerals to find them yesterday. This is probably the first time I’ve criticised Stones but yesterday his passing was wank. We lost the ball 3 times from his first 4 passes.
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the whole team was poor at passing to be fair. Overall thought stones was played alright.
 
He was very very good yesterday only marginally behind Ake. Criticism in here is aimed completely at the wrong people imo. Our centre backs had no options yesterday because our forward line did fuck all to offer either a short pass or long pass. Can't blame them for giving it away when there's zero options. Our back 4 and 2 holding midfielders actually did a very good job of keeping the ball but was repeatedly given no options ahead of them and against a Liverpool press it's inevitable the ball will be lost eventually. they should be praised for keeping hold of it as long as they did waiting for our attackers to move. Liverpool cut the correct angles off knowing full well we don't have a keeper that can negate it all by clipping 40 yard balls with pinpoint accuracy. The closed off the right channels and forced us into corners because we had nothing from our front 4 other than an occasional long diagonal to the right
 
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