5 | John Stones - 2024/25

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Macca77macca said:
I agree. Its quite an insult. Nothing against Haaland I love the guy, but Johns won more than anyone one that pitch and is a proper blue. Fundamental to how the team plays.
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I think some folk play better when concentrating on their game rather than being captain and Stones may be one of those.
He played poorly as did England when he was captain. I don't think he's been voted as part of the captain group.
David Silva was one of our greatest ever players but in all honesty he was not our best captain. I'm not convinced Kev plays at his best when captain.
Stones is a fabulous player and leads by example , but it's possible the extra load of being titular captain would detract from his game rather than add to it.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
John Stones was very ropey defensively when he first arrived. Pep's coaching definitely helped develop him into the all-round defender we see today.
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He was already a very very good defender at Everton mate. He always has that calmness on the ball and languid playing style ,would win his fair share of headers,and was gritty and determined up against a centre forward.
Everton fans used to get annoyed at their own player ,and curse him for not clearing /putting the ball into row z ,instead preferring to wait patiently,with the ball tied to. feet ,showing neat ball control, often deep into his own penalty area, dribbling and body swerving past Forwards he'd just took the ball off.....I remember the lads confidence in his own ability,at that early stage of his career,was off the scale .
You were looking at Der Kaiser or Rudi Kroll style ,..from a Barnsley lad !

Stones knew how to defend before he got to City .
Knew how to play or bring a ball out of defence .....what he did struggle with in the first few months under Pep
was the new coaches particular demands for passing out of the back 4.
Often in his Everton games he appeared to be ponderous and took laid back with the ball at his feet...the truth was, the Everton coach hadn't encouraged that particular trait of Stones game......team mates didn't help show for the ball..,..Stones,cos he was so nimble footed simply held onto it ..took his time and found the pass,..home supporters often going mad in the background..

At City of course ,playing out from the back was de rigour ,and he had top level players around him, all drilled to pass there way out of defence. ...just took him time to get used to the change...

But he was already a top defender at Everton,hence the transfer fee.
 
dennishasdoneit said:
There is some footage somewhere of Edwards playing for England v Scotland ?at Wembley
This huge man mountain of a player ,.advanced from the centre back line and strode with purpose with the ball
at his feet through midfield....it was brilliant. Every other player looked up to him,or just looked inferior.....
That's ,my fleeting video glimpse of Duncan Edwards,around 1954 I think.
How did you rate Bobby Moore ,.against the two you mention?
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We don’t know what Duncan would have done if he had lived but I doubt he would have had the same lifestyle outside football. Moore was a great defender and rightly lauded by the great and good of his time but Duncan was quiet and unassuming and, to my mind, would have outshone him. But it was not to be unfortunately.
 
He and Ake are pure talent and solid players IMO, and I feel confident when they're on the field , but both have the same issue: they can't stay fit which makes it hard to rely on them for a long run of consecutive matches.

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Crooked_rain said:
Woodgate another. Excellent ability and was better than Wio Ferdinand and co. but could rarely stay fit and didn't live the life off it by all accounts.
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Woodgate came to Maine Road with Leeds a few times while still a very young player and was pure class. Ferdinand was overrated as a ball-playing defender - he had a posture which made him look good on the ball, but his actual distribution was bang average. Terry on the other hand, was an elite ball player who wrongly got perceived as a primitive stopper.

I'm With Stupid said:
John Stones was very ropey defensively when he first arrived. Pep's coaching definitely helped develop him into the all-round defender we see today.
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I disagree, for me Pep’s coaching is so complexed, it neglects the basics of defending that would have made him the absolute best in his role in the world a lot earlier.

If he’d had a few years under Moyes early on at Everton, or even Allardyce had kept the England job in 2016 they’d have developed those primitive fundamentals with him. In the last few weeks, the 4 failed blocks against Arsenal due to terrible body shape and lack of aggression/bravery - especially stupidly showing Havertz inside onto his left foot - were examples of things he can still improve on.

Even the third Real goal the other night, he could have done better - he gets leeway because he’s still building up his match fitness, and had played the most of the game covering considerable distance in midfield so you allow for Bellingham beating him in a sprint, but he should have anticipated Ederson getting bypassed and got back into that space before it became a race.

Being proactive rather than reactive changes the outcome of that game, and elevates Stones into the realms of absolute elite defender. Hopefully he get’s a run of fitness and continuity over the next couple of years in what could/should be his prime, because he’s a phenomenal footballer, and now seemingly becoming a leader too - something which will be essential to the transitional period the squad is currently going through. Most of the other serial winners look like they need to be replaced in the summer, whereas Stones is one of the few who still has the quality to transcend the process.
 
dennishasdoneit said:
There is some footage somewhere of Edwards playing for England v Scotland ?at Wembley
This huge man mountain of a player ,.advanced from the centre back line and strode with purpose with the ball
at his feet through midfield....it was brilliant. Every other player looked up to him,or just looked inferior.....
That's ,my fleeting video glimpse of Duncan Edwards,around 1954 I think.
How did you rate Bobby Moore ,.against the two you mention?
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Seemingly walked like a woman and wore a bra.
Too young for Edwards but can remember Moore in the 70 Mexico World Cup.
Rolls Royce of a player along with Franz Beckenbauer.
 
Macca77macca said:
That wasn’t about who was Captain, tactics were wrong

Maybe your right with your general point though
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England may well have played poorly due to poor tactics but under the waistcoat when Stones was not captain he was usually one of the shining lights who played well despite the tactics. he wasn't that day.
 
If Ruben is fit for midweek I would have Stones at RB. He did a good job in that role in the past.
 
bennyboy said:
Seemingly walked like a woman and wore a bra.
Too young for Edwards but can remember Moore in the 70 Mexico World Cup.
Rolls Royce of a player along with Franz Beckenbauer.
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Got respect for BM from footage seen and conversation with older footy fans,WHU included.

But..I'll always remember seeing the extended highlights footage from Dec 1970, when ron greenwood instructed Moore to man mark Colin Bell.,..who led the England captain a merry dance all over a mudbath of a pitch at the Boleyn ground. Took the piss out of him time and again in a 4nil City away win.
It was only 1 match.,...but you can't unsee what your eyes see.Bell dropped deep and dragged Moore way out of position time and again,making the England captain look like a school boy ..destroyed him.
 
Seeing John Stones in the last few games has really demonstrated what he brings to the team. When fit he looks a superb player bringing stability into the team.

The biggest worry is always how long he will be able to maintain his fitness, so fingers crossed on that score.
 
Absolutely outstanding yesterday, and my MotM, despite Omar's hat-trick.

I don’t ever remember John playing at left-sided CB before, though he was only nominally in that position, as he was everywhere.

A brilliant performance by the Barnsley Beckenbauer; he really is a Rolls-Royce of a player,,when fully fit.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
If John Stones had remained mostly injury free in his career, i genuinely feel that he’d be talked about as the greatest centre back of his generation.
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We have a bit of a laugh about The Barnsley Beckenbauer but go and have a look at some of Beckenbauer's old videos. If yer can't see the ghost of Beckenbauer's game inside what Johnny, Johnny Stones contributes to a game then yer not looking hard enough.
 
Colin Bells Boots said:
Seeing John Stones in the last few games has really demonstrated what he brings to the team. When fit he looks a superb player bringing stability into the team.

The biggest worry is always how long he will be able to maintain his fitness, so fingers crossed on that score.
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There's the rub, as the man says.
At thirty a central defender/defensive midfielder of Johnny's ability is not old. Not at all. The whole question is the ability to play out, let us say, two-thirds of a season.
I still say our best back line, by some distance, includes Johnny and Rúben playing alongside each other, regardless of who's playing wide in full back positions. If only we could have them both back till the end of the season.
 
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