a secular society by 2030

Weloveyoucitywedo said:
Your whole precise that logic is somehow a thing you learn from other people, is just wrong. If I were born and left on an island by myself, I would still develop logical skills, if we met aliens from a distant civilisation, they would use logic in much the same way we do. Logic is a product of the universe we live and how beings like ourselves can make sense of it. We're not even the only animals on earth that use logic.

You say that this is because I've been through a Western education system which 'indoctrinated me', which is interesting because I actually was home schooled for much of my childhood because I was very ill. I taught myself by reading widely, anything and everything. You also use the example of 'switching off the logic' and using emotional intelligence to help get over depression. Which is a contradiction in and of itself. By switching off 'what you see to be logical' you are benefiting from it which instantly makes it a 'logical' thing to do. Emotions are complex, but ultimately they have been crafted to benefit humans in wider society and allow them to succeed.

Being a City fan to me was an entirely logical decision, I was taken to watch them by my uncle, my dad and my cousin. Now what is the most socially beneficial thing to do when you're in that situation as an eight-year-old? Support the other team? No, you see, humans are tribal creatures and we like being part of something in a social context, because it is/was beneficial to our evolution. It's certainly not a logical fallacy to support City, and this indicates to me that you have an overly simplified view of what the logic in these systems implies.

You seem to think that our emotional intelligence can't be logical because logic is 'simplistic, cold and mechanical'. If you ask me, you're thinking about it all wrong, the logic which drives our emotions is so complex it is beautiful, and it is something to be marvelled at and not simply written off as being something 'supernatural and unexplainable'. The reason that scientists have become less spiritual over the years is because science itself has transcended into the realm of the fantastical, we don't need gods to be amazed by things any more, we see that the universe itself is an amazing place to be.

When you say 'be open to new ideas', you haven't actually proposed anything new other than 'not everything can be explained by empirical logic'. Well then, if you don't explain things via that then propose something which is better and we will use that. Until then all you've done is derided science without actually proposing anything better.




From Clip: To question, to be logical, to doubt... any fool can do it. To open up, to relax, to live in grace, you need intelligence. If you are living only by your so called logic, you are living by the logic society gave you. If you are living by logic you don't need to visualize hell. You're already in it. It's not a way i'd like to live. I acknowlege it's how modern society works, but to hear people use words such as 'enemy of reason', wasn't that a book? Shows that we are in a pretty sad state and a long way from being enlightened.

As for supporting city being logical, to me there's nothing less logical than being at notts county or gillingham on a tues night when i could have walked to old trafford and watched United against barcelona or juventus, but no i repsected my initial emotion, and remember emotion always arises before logic and i'm glad that I did.
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what has this do with why we are becoming secular?
 
I like odd, different wacky etc but that paul fella was very strange in an unpleasant way. Good riddance if he's buggered off.
 
andyhinch said:
wayne71 said:
I like odd, different wacky etc but that paul fella was very strange in an unpleasant way. Good riddance if he's buggered off.
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I think it's called being a twat
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I disagree. You can be a likeable twat, like yourself.
 
Weloveyoucitywedo said:
Your whole precise that logic is somehow a thing you learn from other people, is just wrong. If I were born and left on an island by myself, I would still develop logical skills, if we met aliens from a distant civilisation, they would use logic in much the same way we do. Logic is a product of the universe we live and how beings like ourselves can make sense of it. We're not even the only animals on earth that use logic.

You say that this is because I've been through a Western education system which 'indoctrinated me', which is interesting because I actually was home schooled for much of my childhood because I was very ill. I taught myself by reading widely, anything and everything. You also use the example of 'switching off the logic' and using emotional intelligence to help get over depression. Which is a contradiction in and of itself. By switching off 'what you see to be logical' you are benefiting from it which instantly makes it a 'logical' thing to do. Emotions are complex, but ultimately they have been crafted to benefit humans in wider society and allow them to succeed.

Being a City fan to me was an entirely logical decision, I was taken to watch them by my uncle, my dad and my cousin. Now what is the most socially beneficial thing to do when you're in that situation as an eight-year-old? Support the other team? No, you see, humans are tribal creatures and we like being part of something in a social context, because it is/was beneficial to our evolution. It's certainly not a logical fallacy to support City, and this indicates to me that you have an overly simplified view of what the logic in these systems implies.

You seem to think that our emotional intelligence can't be logical because logic is 'simplistic, cold and mechanical'. If you ask me, you're thinking about it all wrong, the logic which drives our emotions is so complex it is beautiful, and it is something to be marvelled at and not simply written off as being something 'supernatural and unexplainable'. The reason that scientists have become less spiritual over the years is because science itself has transcended into the realm of the fantastical, we don't need gods to be amazed by things any more, we see that the universe itself is an amazing place to be.

When you say 'be open to new ideas', you haven't actually proposed anything new other than 'not everything can be explained by empirical logic'. Well then, if you don't explain things via that then propose something which is better and we will use that. Until then all you've done is derided science without actually proposing anything better.




From Clip: To question, to be logical, to doubt... any fool can do it. To open up, to relax, to live in grace, you need intelligence. If you are living only by your so called logic, you are living by the logic society gave you. If you are living by logic you don't need to visualize hell. You're already in it. It's not a way i'd like to live. I acknowlege it's how modern society works, but to hear people use words such as 'enemy of reason', wasn't that a book? Shows that we are in a pretty sad state and a long way from being enlightened.

As for supporting city being logical, to me there's nothing less logical than being at notts county or gillingham on a tues night when i could have walked to old trafford and watched United against barcelona or juventus, but no i repsected my initial emotion, and remember emotion always arises before logic and i'm glad that I did.
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Left alone on that island, logic and reason wouldn't lead you to think that there was a God. God is a concept of humans trying to order other humans in society. On your own, there's no need for a God.

Truly free thought, as you would have on your island of exile, would never lead you to the conclusion that a bearded zombie that who was his own Dad created all you saw around you. Religion is collusion.

Religion is for idiots.
 
Theflash, I wouldn't bother mate, having read through the past few pages its clear the guy you quoted is not going to engage in debate. He hasn't addressed any of the points put forward by skyblueflux and is talking gibberish
 
roaminblue said:
Theflash, I wouldn't bother mate, having read through the past few pages its clear the guy you quoted is not going to engage in debate. He hasn't addressed any of the points put forward by skyblueflux and is talking gibberish
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Delusion is a strange thing, but I've been called likeable so fuck it, that is delusional
 
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