A Thought On Stadium Expansion

[Freestyler]

fine as it is.

 

[alera]

Not really if we want to compete at the highest level.

 

[LoveCity]

Yeah, it isn't fine as it is because our matchday revenue intake is NOT GOOD, about 25m compared to around 100m that United and Arsenal do. Our matchday revenue is about the same as Aston Villa, not good enough for a top club that. The club needs to have the stadium bursting at the seams with people wanting tickets but unable to get them - then an expansion can be really justified.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Wasn't there an open end during the Commonwealth games? what happened with the roof then?

The structure of the roof was there over the open end; its just that the cladding wasn't fixed to the structure.

You can see that the skeleton of the roof is already in place here:

 

[BluePurgatory]

I personally think we should wait a couple of years before we expand the stadium,we havn't the fan base to fill a 60 thousand stadium.

Agree, but if some of the "We dont want new fans" Brigade have their way then thats never going to happen! This is why we need to attract all new fans including the glory hunters.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

why can't we do it emirati style, it'll be done in 10 minutes?

I'd rather see the exterior be livened up 2bh.

 

[Cruiser Blue]

Anothe reason why the rags and other teams revenue is that high cos there tickets for a game are a third more than ours from what ive been hearing i could be wrong

 

[johnmc]

Not really if we want to compete at the highest level.

Attendances aren't important.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Presumably the expansion would start in the away end near the end of the season, bringing this to three tiers, with blues next to the away fans relocated, then once this is complete begin work on a third tier in the family stand (if demand is there)

I for one would be made up if the stadium looked like this..Imagine it under the lights,champions league nights etc-oooo matron,the hairs on my neck have just stood up....Whatever the club do I will support them...However I think many on here make a valid point that the marketing/commercial side needs to improve to get fans through the door to increase matchday revenue...

 

[goat boy]

FFPR deteremines that we have to, I think. To increase ticket income, you need more seats. Under a normal business plan, increasing the seats wouldnt yield the benefit in terms of turnover to justify the huge expense - or it'd be hugely risky, as an investment, because you'd be looking at 50 years to recoup, or something. However, if you factor FFPR into this it gets mucky, because stadium expenditure is not included in that account. When the thing is finished and you've taken £35 off punters to sit in the new seats, and they're buying a balti pie and a programme, that's all good FFPR income. So for 'zero' investment the club gets extra turnover every year. You'd be daft not to. And you can attach ever more value to your other commercial deals etc, on the basis that your medium now delivers a marketer's message to an increasing number of people. Get cracking, City.

NB I'm pretty sure 'we're redeveloping the ground and are down on seat numbers' is deemed fair cause to reduce or completely remove the away allocation, temporarily. That's 3000 extra blue seats. I assume it'd be done one end at a time. People will still get shirty about it, though, inevitably...

 

[bluestevei]

Entire upper tier would be empty right now if we had 60,000 seats, we simply do not have the fanbase to fill that sort of capacity except probably against the rags/Chelsea/Arsenal.

I'd love to see a bigger and better Etihad Stadium but it'd be embarrassing for the club if we expanded only to have empty seats in the new area. In 2005 it was said we had about 885k fans in UK (probably more now!) and most of them are probably in Manchester, so maybe before expanding the stadium, the brass needs to ask the question "How can we get more of those fans into the ground?".

thats easy i think, make seasoncards a bit cheaper, then game by game make tickets cheaper for blue members, so for example, east stand all season tickets £24 = £456, so then make match tickets at £30, and for all fa cup and carling cup games charge £16 kids £5 so if ground holds 55k that roughly would be about 1.2 mill so wewill still be ok with the ffs. and maybe we would sell out against notts county, leicester and so on.

 

[BrianW]

There are an awful lot of City fans who have stopped going over the last 20-30 years for one reason or another. OK, a fair few it's because they're dead. But the rest could (potentially) be won back. Also there will be more glory hunters each year.

However what the club really needs to build up is the corporate side. It grates my teeth to say it, but that's where the big money is. If you give more space to the corporates, it means you need a bigger stadium to get the real fans in.

I think with the right marketing a bigger stadium could be filled. But it ain't going to happen overnight, and to some extent demand will depend on what trophies we win or don't win. For example, if we're champions five years running and win the European Champions League, demand will go through the roof. (Yes I know it's a big ask, but I'm just using it as an example, not a prediction.)

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Now then, it might well be the case that we expand the stadium and I think most people either in the know or who know anything about civil engineering are suggesting that the natural expansion is going to be the two ends into 3 tiers like the East and Colin Bell. I'm sure it will look great if that happens.

However, if that is the plan, I would have thought that it would take some time and that they would have to close part of the ground to accommodate this. If this is the case, what will the capacity be brought down to during that time and will this mean that we have a situation whereby some season ticket holders are unable to renew or even get into the ground owing to the reduced capacity? If that happens this board will surely explode.

It was bad enough when they were kicked out of the family stand....

I would happily take a season out if the club said "we are knocking down the East Stand and rebuilding it as a one tier'd super stand like the die Südtribüne at Borussia Dortmand!"

Honestly, I'd be extatic!

 

[M18CTID]

My view is, and always will be, that we should extend the stadium asap.

Remember when we were at Maine Rd and the plans were first drawn up? We all expected a 60k stadium and were disappointed when we were told it'd be 50k. Then it ended up more like 47k.

Experience at a variety of clubs, most obviously at Arsenal and United, has proved that once there's momentum it all takes off and support rockets.

Old Trafford rarely sold out pre 1994 (apart from when capacity was severly restricted); same with Highbury and even St. James' Park & Roker Park, but their owners showed a bit of vision and built stadia/improved stadia that took their capacity to new heights.

So long as the stadium is enlarged to a plan that allows smaller attendances to be managed

(there are ways of closing off third tiers that limit the appearance of empty seats) we should go for an enlargement asap. Build it and they will come.

I know people get hung up on the fact we don't seem to sell out, but improving the stadium and its surrounds will help increase interest as well. There's a PR job to do to encourage people to attend who have perhaps not yet come to the stadium but regularly attended Maine Road.

There's no doubt that Champions League qualification and the FA Cup success has generated interest outside of City's normal support - take a look at all the people who have 'liked' my facebook page and you'll see there are a lot of fans who claim support for City who you would not have expected a few years ago. If that continues, which I'm sure it will, then it's clear the stadium would need to be increased no matter what. Add a hotel and other facilities and the game will become part of a package - some will say that's not what football should be but regardless of that, that's the way the game has been going since the PL was formed.

Increase the stadium now and then work hard to fill it.

In 1922 people thought City's directors were mad when they planned for a 80k stadium - our average was a lot lower than it is today - and yet within 6 months of opening it had attracted 76,166 for a game. It was a one off (though there were other large attendances) but no one had ever envisaged Manchester housing such a crowd (it eclipsed all attendances at OT and was greater than 3 FA Cup finals that had been played in the area).

Build it and they will come.

EDIT: Meant to add - as for enlarging the stadium and its impact on capacity. I am certainly no expert and have no idea on technical issues, but once the balancing issue of the roof is sorted out I reckon it would be possible to keep capacity at a similar level to now by building behind the two ends. There would be safety issues, but I reckon it would be possible to reduce capacity a little - and have an uncovered stand - but build behind and above as they did with the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the Kippax during the 1994-95 season (remember on match days they opened an unroofed 1st tier, then 2nd tier).

Great post as usual Gary. I agree this needs to be done ASAP. If the team keeps progressing as expected, coupled with the huge improvements being planned around the stadium and the metrolink expansion, then I see no reason why we can't, with proper marketing and sensible pricing, lure thousands of lapsed blues back along with gain some new fans along the way.

I don't like to refer to "matchday experience" but at the moment there are less eating and drinking options around the stadium than there were at Maine Road. City Square is a start and I know town isn't too far away but there is so much more scope to put more facilities in place.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Entire upper tier would be empty right now if we had 60,000 seats, we simply do not have the fanbase to fill that sort of capacity except probably against the rags/Chelsea/Arsenal.

I'd love to see a bigger and better Etihad Stadium but it'd be embarrassing for the club if we expanded only to have empty seats in the new area. In 2005 it was said we had about 885k fans in UK (probably more now!) and most of them are probably in Manchester, so maybe before expanding the stadium, the brass needs to ask the question "How can we get more of those fans into the ground?".

We probably sell out thirteen games a season. That is thirteen games where we could have sold more tickets. That's thirteen times where revenue would be a lot bigger if there were even more tickets available in a bigger stadium; thirteen times we're missing out and not recouping what we need for FFPR - every bit helps!

Who gives a shit if we have a few games a season where we have empty seats? I don't! Do the text messages off Rags or songs sung by Geordies really upset everyone? I don't give a shit! Barcelona have anything up to 20-30000 empty seats in most of their games! There are NRL teams who get 30000 crowds on a regular basis, which is a respectable number, but they play in the ANZ Stadium which holds 100000. Are they bothered?nope!

Plus if we had a stadium that held 60000 and had a stand that everyone would want to be part of (like the Kippax, like the die Südtribüne) and have competitive ticket prices then it will attract more fans to attend more regularly who might only come to five or so games a season. The Etihad Stadium isn't a good stadium. I don't get to my seat and think "wow I fucking love this place, it's immense!" It's like having a moderately good looking girlfriend who has got no conversation or sense of humour about her!

 

[philiph20]

Looking at the average attendances since we moved in 2003 i am flabergasted that we averaged more in the first season than we did last year, we do indeed have static support and if anything it proves we have minimal day trippers.

The club have done a lot in my opinion to improve attendances at cup games but for whatever reason we do seem to have a lot of "can't be arsed" supporters it would seem, probably more than comparably sized clubs, no idea why this may be bearing in mind the changes in the alst few years...finance or lack of it?, lack of passion?????.

There must be tens of thousands of fans in Greater Manchester who used to do but haven't been for years the question is how do we attract them back.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Looking at the average attendances since we moved in 2003 i am flabergasted that we averaged more in the first season than we did last year, we do indeed have static support and if anything it proves we have minimal day trippers.

The club have done a lot in my opinion to improve attendances at cup games but for whatever reason we do seem to have a lot of "can't be arsed" supporters it would seem, probably more than comparably sized clubs, no idea why this may be bearing in mind the changes in the alst few years...finance or lack of it?, lack of passion?????.

There must be tens of thousands of fans in Greater Manchester who used to do but haven't been for years the question is how do we attract them back.

Unfortunatly, lads in their 20's like me who over the last decade have come to the age where we can get our own tickets.. well there just aren't that many of us. At school it was United who won everything while we got relegated. So only those who were proper City fans remained City fans. Until last season we'd only known City as a failure of a club. All the kids when I was at school who weren't that serious about football support, whose parents weren't into football so had no family ties to a club, all just followed United because they won stuff.

My Dad went to school in the 60's when most of his school were City fans. My uncles are a generation younger than me Dad said all their mates were City fans in the 70's and 80's. Now this generation have children and mortgages and can't go to City all that often. So we are left with those who are rich enough to go no matter what their situation, or old enough to have no responsibilities of mortgages or kids anymore and a small group of lads in our 20's.

I'll bet we have the smallest number of seasoncard holders in their 20's of any club in the Prem. Other clubs like Villa Newcastle Sunderland Everton Spurs Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal Rags are either the only clubs in their towns, are the biggest clubs in their town, are from London so there are that many people all clubs have huge support, have still won trophies over time, or are giant clubs.. therefore, all retaining and refreshing support.

We are not in this position. This hasn't happened for my generation of City fans.

It will take a generation of being a top club until we get our support size from the first 75 years of our club back.

 

[waspish]

Looking at the average attendances since we moved in 2003 i am flabergasted that we averaged more in the first season than we did last year, we do indeed have static support and if anything it proves we have minimal day trippers.

The club have done a lot in my opinion to improve attendances at cup games but for whatever reason we do seem to have a lot of "can't be arsed" supporters it would seem, probably more than comparably sized clubs, no idea why this may be bearing in mind the changes in the alst few years...finance or lack of it?, lack of passion?????.

There must be tens of thousands of fans in Greater Manchester who used to do but haven't been for years the question is how do we attract them back.

I blame social networks sites and footy live streaming to your 50" LCD tv's with cheap beer mates

 

[philiph20]

Good points about fans in their 20s Dan as we seems to have lost an entire generation and we also suffer from sharing a City which clubs like Sunderland, Newcastle, Leeds etc don't, i do think it is a lot harder to attract fans back than it is to loose them

The lack of fans in their 20s may explain why the numbers we take away from home are less than comparable clubs in terms of size such as Newcastle, Everton, Sunderland etc.

 

[ColinBellsjockstrap]

My thoughts:-

Why expand when we can't even fill it now?

Even in our championship winning season 1967/8 at Maine Road the average attendance was only around 37,000 IIRC, with the odd 50,000 thrown in.

If people were queuing up to get in and going home disappointed locked out THEN is the time to think about it.

Of course I would like a packed out 80,000 stadium, like everyboby else, but it ain't going to happen, especially against teams like Swansea, Wigan etc.

Just being realistic.