Women feel threatened walking alone at night, I'm sure they do. Anyone like Sarah Everard could have been the victim in her own home, in daylight or known to the person who is being investigated into her death. There's a lot of murders of females by their partners, jealousy, domestic violence , revenge, etc, it just doesn't get coverage as it's relatively common. Sarah's killing is shocking but it's a statistic that will be replicated every year and no amount of protests will make any difference. Domestic violence against women should be highlighted, but we all know when it involves the media's darlings they don't pursue too much, Giggs as an example.
A thread about protesters
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Nellies left peg
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I'm 59 and even I don't feel safe on the streets late at night as a male. Statistics show I'm more at risk of being attacked and killed by a stranger than a woman is. Most crimes against women are committed as someone said on here by ex boyfriends or husbands or members of the family(step dad's or step brothers) rather than random attacks. To brand all men as threats is quite frankly bollocks
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worsleyweb
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I didn’t see Kate chanting fuck the police?
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manchester blue
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For someone who has persistently criticised people who have broken lockdown it's strange how you have changed your tune for these professional protesters. The organisers decided to comply and not hold it and then along comes the anti-police, unwashed masses who the other week were blocking Deansgate about climate change. This was anything but a peaceful vigil for the poor girl. Open your eyes.
Just seen a clip on the news. Two prominent placards...
"The police are the perpetrators."
"Kill the bill."
These particular people couldn't give a shit about the cause they're 'protesting' about. They are there to further their agenda.
"The police are the perpetrators."
"Kill the bill."
These particular people couldn't give a shit about the cause they're 'protesting' about. They are there to further their agenda.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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Yes, but who's fault is it? - the police / MP's or those abusing the right to protest?
It's like asking who's fault it is that we have to virtually undress to get through airport security? - decades of western foreign policy or 19 Saudis for flying planes into buildings.
Protest , like free speech comes with responsibility and what we are seeing now is entitled infantile idiots abusing it and as you point out providing the perfect pretext excuse to remove rights. Your comparison to football trophy parades is utter nonsense for obvious reasons which I credit you with the intelligence to figure out for yourself.
remember arthur mann
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I believe the police were fairly relaxed at the beginning when people were showing their respects, then when certain factions decided to turn it into a rally, the shit understandably hit the fan. Post Covid there will be no problem.
Mike Cledford
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Lame Dick?
Metalartin
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Most of the wider conversation has been reasonable enough but there's some things being said where you'd hope we still maintain balance and rationality in society going forward.
By that I mean the more subtle stuff, clearly not every woman who thinks she's being followed is actually being followed, not every woman who thinks she's being stared at or leered at is being stared at. I'm pretty sure convincing yourself of a danger that isn't really there, is a common mistake that happens to both men and women. I think I remember reading it's part of what separates us as a species, we can think into the future and imagine scenarios. Someone will probably be along to explain this in a hunter gatherer context and why it happens better but that's the gist of it. Sometimes there are things men can do to help like crossing the road to overtake, switching seats etc but it's not always possible, it doesn't always work if they try and ultimately it's not always fair to expect a stranger to pander too much to another.
So clearly this "everyone woman should be believed without question no matter what" suggestion I've been hearing needs some deeper thought put to it. Sometimes we have examples of people that need to handle their own fears and/or prejudices better, I suppose it's not just women who are losing that ability though.
By that I mean the more subtle stuff, clearly not every woman who thinks she's being followed is actually being followed, not every woman who thinks she's being stared at or leered at is being stared at. I'm pretty sure convincing yourself of a danger that isn't really there, is a common mistake that happens to both men and women. I think I remember reading it's part of what separates us as a species, we can think into the future and imagine scenarios. Someone will probably be along to explain this in a hunter gatherer context and why it happens better but that's the gist of it. Sometimes there are things men can do to help like crossing the road to overtake, switching seats etc but it's not always possible, it doesn't always work if they try and ultimately it's not always fair to expect a stranger to pander too much to another.
So clearly this "everyone woman should be believed without question no matter what" suggestion I've been hearing needs some deeper thought put to it. Sometimes we have examples of people that need to handle their own fears and/or prejudices better, I suppose it's not just women who are losing that ability though.
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hilts
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We now have some women on the news questioning reasonable doubt so it’s all going very well. Education has been trotted out as well, the cliche that applies to every problem in the world apparently.
Oh and stay in unless it’s a vigil/protest or a football match you really really want to go to.
Oh and stay in unless it’s a vigil/protest or a football match you really really want to go to.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I think it's important to not let the stupidity and ulterior motives of the protestors cloud the real issue of womens safety (and of course the brutal murder of one particular young lady). I live in what I'd call a 'nice' area, and if we need bread/milk etc after dark then instinctively it tends to be me rather than the wife that goes out for it.Whenever my sons are out and about and I have a concern for their safety I admit to taking some small comfort in not having daughters. In many ways women who wish to stay safe are subject to an unspoken curfew - I thionk nothing of going out for a run when the pubs are chucking out and negotiating the piss-heads, not sure a female would feel the same. Only one of I'm sure many such examples.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the last couple of days protests, the facts are the Government will soon have the power to stop peaceful protests altogether. The new 'policing bill' will see to that. Amongst other things:
The police, crime, sentencing and courts bill will give the home secretary, Priti Patel, powers to create laws to define “serious disruption” to communities and organisations, on which police can then rely to impose conditions on protests. That is create laws without reference to Parliament so the key here is make sure you dont get on the wrong side of Priti.
It also sees sentences for damaging statues twice the length of the average sentence for rape.
Article from the Guardian for those that are interested.
www.theguardian.com
Bit by bit our freedoms are being chiselled away. The Government have very effectively turned the BBC into a propaganda outlet. The police next.
The police, crime, sentencing and courts bill will give the home secretary, Priti Patel, powers to create laws to define “serious disruption” to communities and organisations, on which police can then rely to impose conditions on protests. That is create laws without reference to Parliament so the key here is make sure you dont get on the wrong side of Priti.
It also sees sentences for damaging statues twice the length of the average sentence for rape.
Article from the Guardian for those that are interested.
Why is anti-protest bill generating so much controversy?
Critics say handing police and home secretary more discretionary powers will undermine civil liberties
www.theguardian.com
Bit by bit our freedoms are being chiselled away. The Government have very effectively turned the BBC into a propaganda outlet. The police next.
hilts
Well-Known Member
I think that a male is more likely to be assaulted outside the home than a woman while a woman is more likely to be assaulted within the home than a man. A woman is much more likely to be sexually assaulted than a man anywhere. Maybe we should force men to stay indoors alone while only women can roam the streets. 2 Ronnies sketch or was it the goodies? Bloody stats.
Anyhow the only stat that matters is too many people people are cunts. I think we have tried the stop being a **** please route so I’m at a loss.
Uncle Wally One Ball
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Violence against women is mainly in domestic settings. That is why pursuing prosecutions in domestic violence cases where the victim does not want to pursue it, but where other evidence exists, is vital. And since you mentioned Giggs I feel compelled to point out that this is exactly why it was entirely proper for Caroline Flack to have been prosecuted. However for some reason it was deemed alright for her to welt her partner around the head with a hard object as he was lying down and people wanted her to get away with it. As you say, there is no consistency with media coverage
I agree, an old friend of mine was stabbed by his partner with a kitchen knife, we had watched Coventry v. City in the pub, he'd gone home as he was up early the next day, she stayed behind and had a wine too many. She got a bee in her bonnet about him "leaving" her alone, she wasn't, she had friends there, went home picked up the knife and stabbed him once. He nearly died but the ambulance medics and doctors were fantastic and saved him, took over a year for him to recover. The Police asked if he wanted to prosecute, he said no so they didn't. They're not together anymore but she now owns and runs a successful business, she should definitely have been prosecuted.
Uncle Wally One Ball
Well-Known Member
She would have been these days, unquestionably
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
This. In an ideal world, no-one should fear walking home alone at night in a questionable area.
And then we all woke up and realised of course it's not an ideal world. There's things that, male or female, it's just not wise to do. Unfortunately.
Evil cunts do exist, and unless/until we find a way of detecting them at birth and having them humanely killed, we are stuck with it. And even then, I suspect the copper who did this latest evil act was probably not evil to start with, but has had a mental breakdown of some kind.
Having said all that, the detection and prosecution rates for some crimes, e.g. rape are appalling and something needs to be done to improve that.
Stuuuuuu
Well-Known Member
Protest has achieved, among many other things:
Women's suffrage.
Suffrage for all races.
Acceptance of LGBT people.
UK reluctance to engage in war since 2003.
Protection of Muslims against Trumps airport ban.
Withdrawal of troops from Vietnam and other wars.
An end to segregation.
And end to Communism in states like Czechoslovakia.
The government is now effectively trying to ban protest. Please look at how you, your family and others have benefited from these. Please do not stigmatise protest.
Women's suffrage.
Suffrage for all races.
Acceptance of LGBT people.
UK reluctance to engage in war since 2003.
Protection of Muslims against Trumps airport ban.
Withdrawal of troops from Vietnam and other wars.
An end to segregation.
And end to Communism in states like Czechoslovakia.
The government is now effectively trying to ban protest. Please look at how you, your family and others have benefited from these. Please do not stigmatise protest.
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Young men are far more likely to be attacked than women, but the nature of the attack may be very different.
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inbetween
Guest
The conversations on this stuff are never about the crimes, they are always about the relationship that crime has to the issue of the day be it race, gender or whatever. There's therefore a very strong identity based victim culture but bizarrely there's also an anti 'let's do something about this' culture.
We see protests every day about these issues but the voices aren't saying let's give the Police the tools they need, what they want is to shout and hold a persecution against another group. You will see those same people moan about violence against women but next week they'll be moaning about how the Police are too discriminatory, this is summed up by those women at the vigil chanting "f*ck the police", yes the same police who arrested the murderer and who protect women from harm on a daily basis.
As you have pointed out with Caroline Flack we had one domestic violence case where a woman was prosecuted and rightly so. She went on to take her own life and well the facts around that didn't help so suddenly the conversation conveniently moves to mental health and how the CPS were wrong to prosecute her.
No-one can win in this climate because for some reason we choose to consistently entertain a minority brigade of politically loud and oversensitive hypocrites. Everyone was shocked by the crime that took place and we all acknowledge that women and any human being should have the right to walk in the street without being murdered.
Women shouldn't have to deal with these problems but for these people to lay the blame at men is wrong and sexist because as a man I'd do anything to prevent that situation. This problem unfortunately exists because there's a subset of absolute nutters in society who will always find a way to do harm.
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