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A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps.
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west didsblue
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Fair enough. As you say the B737 does have a good safety record, particularly the newer versions. However the A320 safety record is slightly better with 0.23 losses per million flights compared to 0.27 for the B737 if you compare the newer versions. The safety record of older B737s wasn't actually that good but it has been in service since the 60s and there have been major improvements since the earliest versions.basokla said:west didsblue said:basokla said:Good response. I'd say let's let the facts come out.
As for older aircraft, give me a properly maintained 20-yr old Boeing 737 any day of the week.
Why?
Probably because I have a friend that is a commercial pilot with over 15,000 hours of flight time. He said if he had to pick any plane to fly it would be a 737. Two things in particular that I remember were:
First, he said the plane had a great safety record beginning with the "500 series" versions. I remember looking at the time at some online data about deadly accidents per flight of different aircraft. The 737 rate was extremely low and seemed to back up his claim.
Second, he said it is a well-balanced plane that is easy to fly. Also said it is a very forgiving plane for pilots with less experience.
He flew our company jet and I flew with him many times. After seeing how he operates I guess I just trust his judgment.
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
They are starting to analyse the voice recorder and are saying they hear voices throughout and that it appears the plane did not suffer a drop in pressure. Looking like it's a weird one.
They are starting to analyse the voice recorder and are saying they hear voices throughout and that it appears the plane did not suffer a drop in pressure. Looking like it's a weird one.
marco
Well-Known Member
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
very strange if that's the case because the automatic 'pull up pull up' would have sounded as they dropped altitude, i'm beginning to think failure in the tail stabilizer and this is why they lost altitude and did not turn direction
acquiesce said:They are starting to analyse the voice recorder and are saying they hear voices throughout and that it appears the plane did not suffer a drop in pressure. Looking like it's a weird one.
very strange if that's the case because the automatic 'pull up pull up' would have sounded as they dropped altitude, i'm beginning to think failure in the tail stabilizer and this is why they lost altitude and did not turn direction
abu13
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Most likely too early but.
i watched a bit on the TV last night where the king of Spain was making his speech, have to say his missus is much better looking than our queen.
Most likely too early but.
i watched a bit on the TV last night where the king of Spain was making his speech, have to say his missus is much better looking than our queen.
the god Gerry Gow
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Air Canada 143 "The Gimli Glider"
Ran out of fuel due to differences between use of metric and imperial measures
cleavers said:Hahaha, does he think they forgot to refuel it in Barcelona ?blue underpants said:Eamonn Holmes on Sky is chuddering on that he thinks the aircraft ran out of fuel as there was hardly any smoke from the crash site!
Air Canada 143 "The Gimli Glider"
Ran out of fuel due to differences between use of metric and imperial measures
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Some reports saying that someone was locked out of the cockpit and was trying to get back in during the descent.
Cheesy said:There's something a little weird about how the plane flew in a straight line during its rapid descent, seemingly after it had squawked emergency. Emergency decompression? Pilot suicide? Even a complete engine failure should have allowed some sort of control & communication. Strange.
Some reports saying that someone was locked out of the cockpit and was trying to get back in during the descent.
blumoonrisen
Well-Known Member
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
"One pilot was locked out of Germanwings plane's cockpit when it crashed; unclear what other pilot was doing - NYT"
I thought there was something more to this when I heard 3 fighter jets were scrambled.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0
"One pilot was locked out of Germanwings plane's cockpit when it crashed; unclear what other pilot was doing - NYT"
I thought there was something more to this when I heard 3 fighter jets were scrambled.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0
Wio Gumflapdinand
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Where are these reports?. If it was a suicidal pilot wouldn't the descent be more dramatic, If you are suicidal pilot I'd imagine you just nose dive it as quick as possibleCheesy said:Cheesy said:There's something a little weird about how the plane flew in a straight line during its rapid descent, seemingly after it had squawked emergency. Emergency decompression? Pilot suicide? Even a complete engine failure should have allowed some sort of control & communication. Strange.
Some reports saying that someone was locked out of the cockpit and was trying to get back in during the descent.
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
It was mentioned on Sky News channel. Just hope it's nothing like this as that would be even more tragic :(
Wio Gumflapdinand said:Where are these reports?. If it was a suicidal pilot wouldn't the descent be more dramatic, If you are suicidal pilot I'd imagine you just nose dive it as quick as possibleCheesy said:Cheesy said:There's something a little weird about how the plane flew in a straight line during its rapid descent, seemingly after it had squawked emergency. Emergency decompression? Pilot suicide? Even a complete engine failure should have allowed some sort of control & communication. Strange.
Some reports saying that someone was locked out of the cockpit and was trying to get back in during the descent.
It was mentioned on Sky News channel. Just hope it's nothing like this as that would be even more tragic :(
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.
A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.
“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”
He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”
PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.
A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.
“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”
He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
is it possible.....pilot 1 leave cockpits....pilot 2 has heart attack/faints stumbles into descend button??
if that's not the case and the report of the pilot trying to re-enter the cockpit is true it can only be pilot suicide
is it possible.....pilot 1 leave cockpits....pilot 2 has heart attack/faints stumbles into descend button??
if that's not the case and the report of the pilot trying to re-enter the cockpit is true it can only be pilot suicide
BlueBearBoots
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
How completely awful if true - no details of the pilots, crew have been released yet have they?
How completely awful if true - no details of the pilots, crew have been released yet have they?
I
I
inbetween
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Judging on the reports this morning, crucially, the 320 door does not lock when it is closed, protocol never allows for pilots to lock themselves out say by accident because of the door locking itself. Obviously sinister means are not accounted for because the whole point of the locked door is to stop anyone getting in from the outside. This also includes a lack of a failsafe where even the cabin crew cannot get in even if under duress from a hijack.
Chillingly, this means that the pilot inside must of locked it from the inside as the other left, no doubt about it.
Judging on the reports this morning, crucially, the 320 door does not lock when it is closed, protocol never allows for pilots to lock themselves out say by accident because of the door locking itself. Obviously sinister means are not accounted for because the whole point of the locked door is to stop anyone getting in from the outside. This also includes a lack of a failsafe where even the cabin crew cannot get in even if under duress from a hijack.
Chillingly, this means that the pilot inside must of locked it from the inside as the other left, no doubt about it.
Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
I would have thought that it was protocol for the door to be always locked except when entering or leaving the cockpit.
inbetween said:Judging on the reports this morning, crucially, the 320 door does not lock when it is closed, protocol never allows for pilots to lock themselves out say by accident because of the door locking itself. Obviously sinister means are not accounted for because the whole point of the locked door is to stop anyone getting in from the outside. This also includes a lack of a failsafe where even the cabin crew cannot get in even if under duress from a hijack.
Chillingly, this means that the pilot inside must of locked it from the inside as the other left, no doubt about it.
I would have thought that it was protocol for the door to be always locked except when entering or leaving the cockpit.
Millwallawayveteran1988
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Ok kill yourself if that's what you want to do but to take 150 innocent people with you is just despicable for me. This now seems like the only reason. unless one of the pilots is a supporter of terror.
I've got to say I don't like it when the one of the crew leave the cockpit especially when it seems it is just to have a chat with a stewardess!
After the Malaysian one and now this, i'm sure new rules will be coming into play although if one pilot wants to do it, i'm not really sure how easy it would be for someone to stop him.
Those last 8 minutes must have been absolutely terrifying for those people on board and so many were children.
Ok kill yourself if that's what you want to do but to take 150 innocent people with you is just despicable for me. This now seems like the only reason. unless one of the pilots is a supporter of terror.
I've got to say I don't like it when the one of the crew leave the cockpit especially when it seems it is just to have a chat with a stewardess!
After the Malaysian one and now this, i'm sure new rules will be coming into play although if one pilot wants to do it, i'm not really sure how easy it would be for someone to stop him.
Those last 8 minutes must have been absolutely terrifying for those people on board and so many were children.
Ducado
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
Same here
chabal said:inbetween said:Judging on the reports this morning, crucially, the 320 door does not lock when it is closed, protocol never allows for pilots to lock themselves out say by accident because of the door locking itself. Obviously sinister means are not accounted for because the whole point of the locked door is to stop anyone getting in from the outside. This also includes a lack of a failsafe where even the cabin crew cannot get in even if under duress from a hijack.
Chillingly, this means that the pilot inside must of locked it from the inside as the other left, no doubt about it.
I would have thought that it was protocol for the door to be always locked except when entering or leaving the cockpit.
Same here
I
I
inbetween
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
On flights like this I doubt it, the door would remain locked certainly but then for a pilot to leave for say a 2/3 minute toilet break it would probably stay unlocked for that period. The door can only be locked from the inside so it would be quite unnatural to lock it for such a short period leaving someone alone in there. I guess it depends on the airline but really it is irrelevant anyway, the second the other pilot left it was clearly locked either way.
It seems the other pilot left, an unplanned descent was initiated and the other pilot realized and wanted to get in. At this point the other pilot is either doing this himself or he is incapacitated but then why would the plane descend if he was incapacitated. The descent must of been a pilot action and also the A320 door unlocks itself in a decompression so a decompression obviously did not happen.
It has to be suicide I'm afraid. I really can't imagine what the families are going through.
chabal said:inbetween said:Judging on the reports this morning, crucially, the 320 door does not lock when it is closed, protocol never allows for pilots to lock themselves out say by accident because of the door locking itself. Obviously sinister means are not accounted for because the whole point of the locked door is to stop anyone getting in from the outside. This also includes a lack of a failsafe where even the cabin crew cannot get in even if under duress from a hijack.
Chillingly, this means that the pilot inside must of locked it from the inside as the other left, no doubt about it.
I would have thought that it was protocol for the door to be always locked except when entering or leaving the cockpit.
On flights like this I doubt it, the door would remain locked certainly but then for a pilot to leave for say a 2/3 minute toilet break it would probably stay unlocked for that period. The door can only be locked from the inside so it would be quite unnatural to lock it for such a short period leaving someone alone in there. I guess it depends on the airline but really it is irrelevant anyway, the second the other pilot left it was clearly locked either way.
It seems the other pilot left, an unplanned descent was initiated and the other pilot realized and wanted to get in. At this point the other pilot is either doing this himself or he is incapacitated but then why would the plane descend if he was incapacitated. The descent must of been a pilot action and also the A320 door unlocks itself in a decompression so a decompression obviously did not happen.
It has to be suicide I'm afraid. I really can't imagine what the families are going through.
Gelsons Dad
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
There is a way for someone to unlock the door from outside but it can be overridden from inside.
There is a way for someone to unlock the door from outside but it can be overridden from inside.
Manchester_lalala
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Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC
So we've potentially got two pilot suicides within the past 12 months. What a twats trick to take hundreds of people with you.
So we've potentially got two pilot suicides within the past 12 months. What a twats trick to take hundreds of people with you.