Afghanistan

[Blue Maverick]

Afghanistan was an unwinnable war. The people have no interest in Western-style government.

But I do think they want the freedoms that come with it, like education, not having to dress head to toe in a bat cape. As ever it’s the weak who will suffer whilst these Neanderthals are in charge. Sadly it will never be resolved, religion is the biggest threat to everyone in the world, made up nonsense used to control people.

 

[BobKowalski]

Well you can't expect countries to destroy themselves completely for US ambition and lust for war, each country has a right to look after it's own interest.

Pakistan provided ground support to Nato and US forces, was the main US ally in the region, lost 80 k of it's people in this war, billions to economy, became the main target of terrorist attacks as it was seen as US ally in the region, what more could it have done? Honestly, expecting anything more is just plain selfish but not surprising as loss of life here doesn't really count for west.

Pakistan at present also host nearly 4 million Afghan refugees as a result of soviet and us invasion, they would be a further influx now, but that's okay as long as US and Nato doesn't have to bear the brunt.

Further, it was Pakistan that got US and Taliban to negotiatiate a withdrawal/peace deal. US would never agree to such a deal if they were making gains on the ground. The war was already lost and this deal presented a way out to cut your losses and end this futile war in exchange for assurances of America's safe exit from Afghanistan.

This BBC documentary looks into British and Soviets invasion of Afghanistan, watch it and you would know why US failed

I do find the refusal to accept that the Afghan mission was lost long before now somewhat baffling. The peace deal last year codified it and now that the moment of truth has arrived everyone is ‘shocked and outraged’.

But then, the outrage seems to be about a perceived blow to the ‘West’ and its image as if the US had never ratted out a country in the past and the Europeans are not exactly rushing to fill the space the Americans occupied.

Then we have ‘we let the women of Afghanistan down’ as if the UK wasn’t leading the way in refusing asylum requests and returning thousands of women back to Afghanistan over the last decade or so, or currently ‘considering’ what to do with asylum requests - expect a decision a week on Thursday.

That Pakistan has millions of refugees will matter as little as Greece or Turkey having millions of refugees, because everyone knows they all want to come to the UK as a few hundred made it across the English Channel and that, as we know, is the ‘real crisis’.

No one who was wringing their hands over Afghanistan seem to have an alternative and viable course of action. The only thing we can do is make it as easy as possible to grant passage and asylum to Afghans seeking it. Canada are taking 20k, Germany are talking about 10k. If the West wants to help then they can start there.

Other helpful suggestions welcome.

 

[Vic]

I do find the refusal to accept that the Afghan mission was lost long before now somewhat baffling. The peace deal last year codified it and now that the moment of truth has arrived everyone is ‘shocked and outraged’.

But then, the outrage seems to be about a perceived blow to the ‘West’ and its image as if the US had never ratted out a country in the past and the Europeans are not exactly rushing to fill the space the Americans occupied.

Then we have ‘we let the women of Afghanistan down’ as if the UK wasn’t leading the way in refusing asylum requests and returning thousands of women back to Afghanistan over the last decade or so, or currently ‘considering’ what to do with asylum requests - expect a decision a week on Thursday.

That Pakistan has millions of refugees will matter as little as Greece or Turkey having millions of refugees, because everyone knows they all want to come to the UK as a few hundred made it across the English Channel and that, as we know, is the ‘real crisis’.

No one who was wringing their hands over Afghanistan seem to have an alternative and viable course of action. The only thing we can do is make it as easy as possible to grant passage and asylum to Afghans seeking it. Canada are taking 20k, Germany are talking about 10k. If the West wants to help then they can start there.

Other helpful suggestions welcome.

 

[Gray]

Sadly it will never be resolved, religion is the biggest threat to everyone in the world, made up nonsense used to control people.

Has been for centuries.

 

[yeseye]

Exactly. Nobody was coming to clear the airfield

The captain had a VERY difficult decision to make; delay his take off and risk getting overrun by the desperate people trying to escape, potentially damaging the aircraft in the process, or take off and at least get a single load of people out. ANY further delay in taking off and he risked not taking off at all.

Even by taking off as he did there was still a serious element of risk because any one of those people hanging on to the aircraft could easily have ended up jamming a flying control surface or damaging an engine. Having said that, it's likely the crew would have struggled to see what was going on behind them as this all unfolded.

I was under the impression the airport was secured by the remaining troops to secure the safe exit of the personnel leaving.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Coalition troops on the ground in Afghanistan should have been there for the sole purpose of dismantling al-Qaeda and deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan. Once UBL had been dealt with they should have come to an understanding with the Afghan government (whoever that was) that harbouring terrorists who are using it as a base of operations to attack western targets wouldn't be tolerated and we'd be back if it ever happened again.

The only problem for the coalition forces is that it is very difficult to operate for any length of time as an expeditionary force without adequate support and robust supply lines, and that meant having a lot of boots on the ground in semi-permanent main operating bases which take time to set up. Now that's all gone it's left a huge vacuum.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I was under the impression the airport was secured by the remaining troops to secure the safe exit of the personnel leaving.

There were troops there, but an airfield is a vast open space, and very difficult to secure if there are hundreds of people trying to gain access at once. You can't just start shooting indiscriminately against unarmed civilians as that would be a war crime. Besides, shooting people would just make the situation 100x worse. Not to mention that stray bullets on an active airfield is NEVER a good idea.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

I do find the refusal to accept that the Afghan mission was lost long before now somewhat baffling. The peace deal last year codified it and now that the moment of truth has arrived everyone is ‘shocked and outraged’.

But then, the outrage seems to be about a perceived blow to the ‘West’ and its image as if the US had never ratted out a country in the past and the Europeans are not exactly rushing to fill the space the Americans occupied.

Then we have ‘we let the women of Afghanistan down’ as if the UK wasn’t leading the way in refusing asylum requests and returning thousands of women back to Afghanistan over the last decade or so, or currently ‘considering’ what to do with asylum requests - expect a decision a week on Thursday.

That Pakistan has millions of refugees will matter as little as Greece or Turkey having millions of refugees, because everyone knows they all want to come to the UK as a few hundred made it across the English Channel and that, as we know, is the ‘real crisis’.

No one who was wringing their hands over Afghanistan seem to have an alternative and viable course of action. The only thing we can do is make it as easy as possible to grant passage and asylum to Afghans seeking it. Canada are taking 20k, Germany are talking about 10k. If the West wants to help then they can start there.

Other helpful suggestions welcome.

It does matter to Pakistan if there is another refugee crisis on the borders, whether they want to go to Uk doesn't matter, what matter is who is actually hosting them. US and Nato should take the maximum amount of refugees. Wars create refugees, it shouldn't be the responsibility of regional countries to bear that brunt.

Biden administration did the commendable thing by following up on the deal but they made the mistake of trusting President Ghani and his cronies for way longer than necessary, it was also evident in his tone yesterday. The aesthetics could have been better and it could have finished in a better way for US had they removed Ghani when he refused to negotiate a political settlement.

If Taliban keep their word and dont let their soil be used for terrorism then west should support whatever form of government that comes in Afghanistan than totally abandoning the country. Keeping Taliban on your side would be much more fruitful than importing leaders into the country and expecting them to do the job.

 

[bluethrunthru]

absolute joker



this one gets it

 

[hilts]

The words courage and Trump should never be deployed in conjunction with each other. He is a coward and a bully. Signing a piece of paper doesn’t make you brave.

In fairness he does struggle to write so he overcame his embarrassment which is nice.

 

[Blue Maverick]

The intelligence community should take the rap for this although a blind man could see what was going to happen, they should’ve known the Afghan army would fold overnight, just as they didn’t see 9/11 they need a hard look at themselves, all those lives wasted and for what.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The intelligence community should take the rap for this although a blind man could see what was going to happen, they should’ve known the Afghan army would fold overnight, just as they didn’t see 9/11 they need a hard look at themselves, all those lives wasted and for what.

it looks like in our case all the intelligence reports were being fed into empty offices as the PM - Foreign Sec and so on decided it would be best served if they took a holiday - you are assuming there was no intel - given things were being reported on the news I bet there was but this bunch of lazy cunts prioritized themselves

 

[Blue Maverick]

it looks like in our case all the intelligence reports were being fed into empty offices as the PM - Foreign Sec and so on decided it would be best served if they took a holiday - you are assuming there was no intel - given things were being reported on the news I bet there was but this bunch of lazy cunts prioritized themselves

Probably right mate, should resign but we know they won’t.

 

[Phil Mitchell Foden]

Well you can't expect countries to destroy themselves completely for US ambition and lust for war, each country has a right to look after it's own interest.

Pakistan provided ground support to Nato and US forces, was the main US ally in the region, lost 80 k of it's people in this war, billions to economy, became the main target of terrorist attacks as it was seen as US ally in the region, what more could it have done? Honestly, expecting anything more is just plain selfish but not surprising as loss of life here doesn't really count for west.

Pakistan at present also host nearly 4 million Afghan refugees as a result of soviet and us invasion, they would be a further influx now, but that's okay as long as US and Nato doesn't have to bear the brunt.

Further, it was Pakistan that got US and Taliban to negotiatiate a withdrawal/peace deal. US would never agree to such a deal if they were making gains on the ground. The war was already lost and this deal presented a way out to cut your losses and end this futile war in exchange for assurances of America's safe exit from Afghanistan.

This BBC documentary looks into British and Soviets invasion of Afghanistan, watch it and you would know why US failed

Lol. Pakistan more or less bankrolls the Taliban. Certainly used to anyway:

Pakistan's army and intelligence services, principally the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), contribute to making the Taliban a highly effective military force

And:

Pakistan is distinguished both by the sweep of its objectives and the scale of its efforts, which include soliciting funding for the Taliban, bankrolling Taliban operations, providing diplomatic support as the Taliban's virtual emissaries abroad, arranging training for Taliban fighters, recruiting skilled and unskilled manpower to serve in Taliban armies, planning and directing offensives, providing and facilitating shipments of ammunition and fuel, and on several occasions apparently directly providing combat support

Also:

In April and May 2001 Human Rights Watch sources reported that as many as thirty trucks a day were crossing the Pakistan border; sources inside Afghanistan reported that some of these convoys were carrying artillery shells, tank rounds, and rocket-propelled grenades.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghan2/Afghan0701-02.htm

What's more Afghanistan has just fallen to the Taliban, and your Prime Minster just literally came out with this yesterday:

Prime Minister Imran Khan declared that Afghans had “broken the shackles of slavery”.

Pakistan leaders’ praise for Taliban takeover obscures domestic threats

US ally has plenty to lose from militants’ rise, including a potential surge in refugee numbers

www.ft.com

Lest we even mention that Osama Bin Laden was living safely and securely down the road from Pakistan's largest military academy while an international fugitive in 2011.

Pakistan has had a huge role in the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban. And there's nothing you can say that will effectively gloss over this.

 

[mancity1]

Major embarrassment for the US and their allies in the way it has unfolded notwithstanding the humanitarian issues and conflict that will ensue.

A complete and utter bungle and for Biden to name a date FFS and then lock himself up in his man cave in CD having to come out of hibernation to spiel some lies and then walk off because his cue card was taken away without immediate press scrutiny says it all despite their love fest with him in the main albeit even CNN are starting to think
WTF.

 

[mancity1]

Why would Pakistan assist the Taliban and I don’t know whats in it for them ? So many questions

Our government should do the right thing and bring home people who worked with abused animals dogs and donkeys ex soldiers who stayed and rescued them

Pakistan was a haven for OB and ISIS and will again without a doubt.

Don't get me wrong we had to pull out forces out of Afghanistan and should have long ago and effectively did but to leave the local supporters behind and the grave fear what will now happen to woman and children left behind to fend for themselves defies all sense of reason and logic.

There will be much displacement again but the Taliban will do deals with who they want to and we know that China will assist in that regard economically for much strategic power in return.

I do agree the US has much bigger issues on it plate namely China and will need to strengthen its presence in the Pacific but they way this was handled is a disgrace and they need to get 200k of their own out of the country before the Taliban come for them.

 

[kaz7]

Women in bank jobs removed , a cross mark on homes with women and young girls in for later ,going house to house looking for anyone who helped the americans and brits

Well done governments , went in without a plan and left with no plan

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

The intelligence community should take the rap for this although a blind man could see what was going to happen, they should’ve known the Afghan army would fold overnight, just as they didn’t see 9/11 they need a hard look at themselves, all those lives wasted and for what.

I'd be a bit careful about blaming the intel community in that all the human/comm's intel out of Afghanistan could have easily been positively misleading, despite what we all think we know (including the media). There could have been assurances issued by the Gov't/Taliban saying that there would be a cooling off period where there could have been a smooth transition of power.

That's certainly how it feels to me in that the Afghan government have potentially betrayed any prior agreement by basically melting away and letting the Taliban get on with it. Maybe we should have seen a betrayal coming, but at some point you have to take it on risk.

 

[Rascal]

20 years of trying to force Western democracy on a country that doesn't want it smacks of coloniasm to me.

It is colonialism driven by the desire of Capitalists to expand into new markets.

Lenin wrote "Imperialism is the highest stage of development of capitalism. Capital in the advanced countries has outgrown the boundaries of national states"

Countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya are seen as future markets, offer them liberal democracy and they are more likely to be places to adopt capitalist models, more likely to be open to western goods and services, more likely to be places where capitalist's can exploit resources and labour for future profits.

 

[Gray]

456 deaths and 2,000 injuries.

When will we ever learn?