America Bombs Venezuela

[BlueAnorak]

Your post is a complete non-sequitur.

My point is based on the erstwhile/putative International Rules-Based Order.

Nice thought but that disappeared a long time a go. Putin ignores it, Xi ignores it, the US has stretched it to the limit for years and Trump ignores it too.

 

[Marlo]

Unfortunately you're right how do you stand up to the more powerful countries in the world though, had we been more powerful in 1997 I'm sure we'd have told China to fuck off we're keeping Hong Kong, same way we can't directly front up Russia or the US anymore.

I would suggest that it has to come from a commonwealth European Alliance. Militarily the UK would be my choice to lead. But regardless It needs significant planning and investment, meaning loans, with clear directions of role responsibilities.

None of this is easy, none of it is quick. But the complete absence of strategy and passiviness of Europe is suicidal. They appear to be still clinging to the hope that once Trump fucks off we can get back to "normal". That is a child's dream, Europe has to start realising we all have far more in common with each other and countries like Canada, Australia and NZ then we do with the lunatic in Washington. The UK in particular, needs to get working with Europe sharpish and forget this special relationship bollix.

 

[moomba]

Time will tell I suppose.

Yeah, it will. Maybe America can tell them whether it's been a good move or not, cause as a Venezuelan it doesn't really matter what they think.

 

[Elbow beards]

Insular America looking inward and not want to get involved in world politics, strikes again.

 

[urban genie]

jon Stewart did this piece 3 weeks ago, same hawks same language, same goals

 

[BlueAnorak]

I doubt theres one Venezuelan that wants regime change and the World Police taking a lot of their countries wealth out of the ground.

It's a disgrace.

Give over - way over half the electorate voted Maduro out and he nullified the election result and there was a pretty severe insurection as a result that was put down by the police & military.
That's not to excuse Trump - but Maduro is a nasty piece of work.
Trump has done this to bury the Epstein issue.

 

[Cigs&Alc]

There should be. But there won't.

There may well be many that want regime change. But for me, I dont want another country making that decision for me, and I dont want them taking the natural resources of my country for their countries wealth.

Venezuelan oil should benefit Venezuelans.

Venezuela oil hasn't been benefiting Venezuelans because of Maduro and Chavez.

 

[Cigs&Alc]

Exactly. To call him a 'leader' of the country is a stretch tbh.

 

[Blue Mist]

Well an awful lot Venezuelans are celebrating as we speak so...

You make it sound so simple.
What happens if it turns into civil war?
What happens if America puts boots on the ground to enforce order and they are attacked ?
This isn't let's invade on Saturday and by Monday a new wonderful government will be in place.
Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator but toppling him didn't turn out so well.
Further, you seem to think this invasion and kidnapping was a good thing. When he's invaded Panama and Colombia plus enforcing a regime change in Brazil will you still think that?
What about Greenland ?
This madman will not stop here, only death will stop him.

 

[moomba]

Give over - way over half the electorate voted Maduro out and he nullified the election result.

Dont confuse people opposed to the US coming into Venezuela and taking their wealth out of the ground with support for their current administration.

 

[moomba]

Venezuela oil hasn't been benefiting Venezuelans because of Maduro and Chavez.

It hasn't been taken out and sent to America either.

 

[i kne albert davy]

I would suggest that it has to come from a commonwealth European Alliance. Militarily the UK would be my choice to lead. But regardless It needs significant planning and investment, meaning loans, with clear directions of role responsibilities.

None of this is easy, none of it is quick. But the complete absence of strategy and passiviness of Europe is suicidal. They appear to be still clinging to the hope that once Trump fucks off we can get back to "normal". That is a child's dream, Europe has to start realising we all have far more in common with each other and countries like Canada, Australia and NZ then we do with the lunatic in Washington. The UK in particular, needs to get working with Europe sharpish and forget this special relationship bollix.

Not sure the whole of Europe would want to be fronting up the Yanks to be honest unless we wanted to put vast amounts of money into defence spending and there's not much enthusiasm for that. American operates 11 Supercarrier groups the whole of Europe has half a dozen carriers. We just don't have the resources to compete any longer.

 

[xgorton]

America have a new flag,it's the Jolly Roger.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Nice thought but that disappeared a long time a go. Putin ignores it, Xi ignores it, the US has stretched it to the limit for years and Trump ignores it too.

Fair enough, but that doesn’t advance your argument around China being far worse than Russia.

So go, on, I’m all ears: how is China worse than Russia?

 

[moomba]

Not sure the whole of Europe would want to be fronting up the Yanks to be honest unless we wanted to put vast amounts of money into defence spending and there's not much enthusiasm for that. American operates 11 Supercarrier groups the whole of Europe has half a dozen carriers. We just don't have the resources to complete any longer.

Shut the bases down. It's a one way relationship at the moment. No need to go to war about it, but we give them something they desperately want. Why?

 

[i kne albert davy]

You make it sound so simple.
What happens if it turns into civil war?
What happens if America puts boots on the ground to enforce order and they are attacked ?
This isn't let's invade on Saturday and by Monday a new wonderful government will be in place.
Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator but toppling him didn't turn out so well.
Further, you seem to think this invasion and kidnapping was a good thing. When he's invaded Panama and Colombia plus enforcing a regime change in Brazil will you still think that?
What about Greenland ?
This madman will not stop here, only death will stop him.

Denmark being a NATO member think we can rule out Greenland unless he's completely lost his marbles.

 

[Gorbachev]

Unfortunately you're right how do you stand up to the more powerful countries in the world though, had we been more powerful in 1997 I'm sure we'd have told China to fuck off we're keeping Hong Kong, same way we can't directly front up Russia or the US anymore.

Financially, Britain cannot be a geopolitical super-power without its now gone empire.

Had we kept Hong Kong, it would have bankrupted us trying to keep up with the defense spend needed to keep China at bay.

Plus, we don't have the oil/gas, farmland, minerals and precious metals to fall back onto either to be at least somewhat self sustainable to some degree. Russia and the US do. If Britain was to have sanctions put on it we would be utterly screwed.

Britain needs to focus on trying to be a beacon of education and business/finance sector, a Singapore of some sort whilst having a military on standby if needed in the same way Norway has.

We are chicken feed on the world stage nowadays. If you took London's economy away from the UK, it would be poorer in GDP terms than the poorest state in the US, Mississippi.

I am not particularly for it but I do think by 2050 we will have a Federalist Europe with Britain part of it.

 

[Dazzle84]

Make China think twice? It will fucking embolden them.

The levels of self delusion in his post would be comical, if he didn't have so many intellectually challenged acolytes

 

[Cigs&Alc]

You make it sound so simple.
What happens if it turns into civil war?
What happens if America puts boots on the ground to enforce order and they are attacked ?
This isn't let's invade on Saturday and by Monday a new wonderful government will be in place.
Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator but toppling him didn't turn out so well.
Further, you seem to think this invasion and kidnapping was a good thing. When he's invaded Panama and Colombia plus enforcing a regime change in Brazil will you still think that?
What about Greenland ?
This madman will not stop here, only death will stop him.

I never said that I 100% support the move. And just to make it clear I am NOT a Trump supporter.

What I am saying is that change was and is needed.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Financially, Britain cannot be a geopolitical super-power without its now gone empire.

Had we kept Hong Kong, it would have bankrupted us trying to keep up with the defense spend needed to keep China at bay.

Plus, we don't have the oil/gas, farmland, minerals and precious metals to fall back onto either to be at least somewhat self sustainable to some degree. Russia and the US do. If Britain was to have sanctions put on it we would be utterly screwed.

Britain needs to focus on trying to be a beacon of education and business/finance sector, a Singapore of some sort whilst having a military on standby if needed in the same way Norway has.

We are chicken feed on the world stage nowadays. If you took London's economy away from the UK, it would be poorer in GDP terms than the poorest state in the US, Mississippi.

I am not particularly for it but I do think by 2050 we will have a Federalist Europe with Britain part of it.

That's pretty much it sadly, no chance of us being a Singapore in my opinion our populations far to big for that. Having nuclear weapons keeps us relatively safe on the world stage but no longer world policeman. Can't see a Federalist Europe in anybodies lifetime to many disagreements.