American jaunts into other people's countries.

[Ricster]

I see you have run to your deepest defence, and are trying to strictly define your argument now you’ve been handed your arse.

Well done. Not playing. If we are going to discuss poor people and their demise, we can start wherever you would like. Maybe the church?

Haha so the main point and a inhumane way of treating people and you dont want to discuss it.

No suprises there.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Haha so the main point and a inhumane way of treating people and you dont want to discuss it.

No suprises there.

Oh, the humanity!

So, do you want to start the story on Chapter 49 of a 50 Chapter book, or should we go back and start from the beginning? Or, was America unique in its use of military power to exercise control over its future? After all, what’s military power FOR if it is not to control your own destiny?

It’s just a joke that you cherry pick an island, or group of atolls, in the middle of the Pacific, which were mostly uninhabited or people were moved. The Americans, seeking to stop a nuclear war, were showing the world they were the primary nuclear power in earth and that as the global white knight, would not allow communists to take over the world.

Were people harmed in and around the Marshall Islands? Absolutely...and many of them were soldiers and sailors who were in harms way in a manner we were absolutely uncertain about.

However, to fucking roll this out as the pinnacle of American colonialism and aggression against peaceful people lacks all context and is microscopic onnthe scale of the two World Wars that had brought us to that point, and the new technology (nuclear war machines) that had been unleashed on the world. On the long list of colonial deaths in the history of the earth, or even America, the Marshall Islands is so far from the top as to be a ridiculous point to stand on, let alone continue to argue about.

I’m not sure if you have me as a British apologist, American apologist, or a nuclear war apologist, but I’m D) None of the Above! Britain, America and all colonial powers, have used that power to usurp local democratic control of politics, and both individual lives and livelihoods. That’s a bad thing, but not without precedent or reason. Autonomy is a great concept, but like giving everyone a million bucks and seeing how they get on, some will turn it into a billion and others will be broke in a month!

Politics, especially global superpower politics, is a sticky wicket, where the enemy of my enemy is often my friend, even if I despise him, and would have gladly killed him a year ago for looking at me wrong. So, place the Marshall Islands in the context of global superpower conflict, and avoidance of same, and I’m afraid it disappears into almost obscurity. Sad, but true.

But, you plant your flag in whatever hill you like...just don’t be surprised if you get trampled by the stampede of real world politics you are overlooking. If you are looking for outrage, open your local rag and read a few stories...there’s enough in there to keep anyone busy!

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Can i ask how old you are?

128

 

[Ricster]

128

I guessed old ;)

 

[Ricster]

Oh, the humanity!

So, do you want to start the story on Chapter 49 of a 50 Chapter book, or should we go back and start from the beginning? Or, was America unique in its use of military power to exercise control over its future? After all, what’s military power FOR if it is not to control your own destiny?

It’s just a joke that you cherry pick an island, or group of atolls, in the middle of the Pacific, which were mostly uninhabited or people were moved. The Americans, seeking to stop a nuclear war, were showing the world they were the primary nuclear power in earth and that as the global white knight, would not allow communists to take over the world.

Were people harmed in and around the Marshall Islands? Absolutely...and many of them were soldiers and sailors who were in harms way in a manner we were absolutely uncertain about.

However, to fucking roll this out as the pinnacle of American colonialism and aggression against peaceful people lacks all context and is microscopic onnthe scale of the two World Wars that had brought us to that point, and the new technology (nuclear war machines) that had been unleashed on the world. On the long list of colonial deaths in the history of the earth, or even America, the Marshall Islands is so far from the top as to be a ridiculous point to stand on, let alone continue to argue about.

I’m not sure if you have me as a British apologist, American apologist, or a nuclear war apologist, but I’m D) None of the Above! Britain, America and all colonial powers, have used that power to usurp local democratic control of politics, and both individual lives and livelihoods. That’s a bad thing, but not without precedent or reason. Autonomy is a great concept, but like giving everyone a million bucks and seeing how they get on, some will turn it into a billion and others will be broke in a month!

Politics, especially global superpower politics, is a sticky wicket, where the enemy of my enemy is often my friend, even if I despise him, and would have gladly killed him a year ago for looking at me wrong. So, place the Marshall Islands in the context of global superpower conflict, and avoidance of same, and I’m afraid it disappears into almost obscurity. Sad, but true.

But, you plant your flag in whatever hill you like...just don’t be surprised if you get trampled by the stampede of real world politics you are overlooking. If you are looking for outrage, open your local rag and read a few stories...there’s enough in there to keep anyone busy!

Working for an NGO i just dont have the same viewpoint. Sorry

 

[Henkeman]

Working for an NGO i just dont have the same viewpoint. Sorry

What kind of NGO?

 

[aguero93:20]

To be fair, it is quite strange that Germany doesn't own their actual heartland of East (and to a lesser extent West) Prussia.

With the way that country borders were drawn up after the world wars I think the only non German parts of Prussia that you could make a case for are the parts in Belgium and Switzerland tbh, whatever way you look at it the Poles, Czechs, Lithuanians and Danish parts had no reason being in Germany and would have created minorities.

 

[Alex - City Matters]

With the way that country borders were drawn up after the world wars I think the only non German parts of Prussia that you could make a case for are the parts in Belgium and Switzerland tbh, whatever way you look at it the Poles, Czechs, Lithuanians and Danish parts had no reason being in Germany and would have created minorities.

I wouldn't say Prussia would have been a German minority though. East Prussia was the only part of the Germanic Teutonic Order not to be incorporated into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth back in the Sixteenth Century and subsequently joined with the Margrave of Brandenburg the following century to create the Prussia state. The area remained intrinsically German over the next few centuries, with cities like Marienburg and Königsberg being some of the most important in Prussia and then the Second Reich. West Prussia was different and had been under Polish rule and hence become largely ethnically Pole for two centuries before it rejoined a Germanic nation after the first partition of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 1770s.

The decision to cede East Prussia therefore wasn't made along ethnicities lines, rather it was a politically decision. Hence why East Prussia is now owned by Russia.

 

[aguero93:20]

I wouldn't say Prussia would have been a German minority though. East Prussia was the only part of the Germanic Teutonic Order not to be incorporated into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth back in the Sixteenth Century and subsequently joined with the Margrave of Brandenburg the following century to create the Prussia state. The area remained intrinsically German over the next few centuries, with cities like Marienburg and Königsberg being some of the most important in Prussia and then the Second Reich. West Prussia was different and had been under Polish rule and hence become largely ethnically Pole for two centuries before it rejoined a Germanic nation after the first partition of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 1770s.

The decision to cede East Prussia therefore wasn't made along ethnicities lines, rather it was a politically decision. Hence why East Prussia is now owned by Russia.

The part that's in Russia was a military decision obviously, although the population there certainly would have been mixed between German and Slav, the rest had no more reason to stay together than Austria-Hungary.
A more interesting one is Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia-Herzegovina, those countries had so much in common but allowed politicians looking for power to play on the smallest of divisions. Albania and Kosovo probably needed independence but there's no reason the rest of greater Serbia shouldn't have stayed together.

 

[SWP's back]

What kind of NGO?

I’m also interested to hear which one it is.