Andy Burnham | Manchester Mayor

mexico1970 said:
They really weren't mate, and we are talking about the day time not the nights. Every city centre where they have made it into a pedestrian zone has fell flat on its face.

Today's Piccadilly gardens IMHO are a wart, a stain on the face of Manchester and it needs removing. I have never felt so ashamed of where I grew up than now.

Make it busy
Police it
Move that shithole of a Mcdonalds
Get the feel of the place back
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I worked on Portland St in my youth, got mugged 3 times in the old gardens, twice before the sun went down, once at night at knifepoint, plenty of staff in the hotels had the same experience or getting pick pocketed, even guests had this happen to them.

you had winos sleeping on the benches and in the later years there was a permement police van parked up come 5pm.

I loved the old gardens bit it always had tramps amd scumbags hanging rouund it, being a bus station meant more folk so more opportunities for crime
 
urban genie said:
I worked on Poertland St in my youth, got mugged 3 times in the old.gardens, twice before the sun went down, once at night, plenty of staff in the hotels had the same experience or getting pick pocketed, even guests had this happen to them.

you had winos sleeping on the benches and in the later years there was a permement police van parked up come 5pm.

I loved the old gardens bit it always had tramps amd scumbags hanging rouund it, being a bus station meant more folk so more opportunities for crime
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Must have one of those faces mate ;-)
 
urban genie said:
not really you move the busess, the odham street one to the underused shuedhill and the southern and eastern bus routes to a new stockport style station possibly onn the old centre point rerail park on great ancoats street.

You then knock down the grey mostrosity, move out the meth heads and hawkers and create a trully stylish piaza style square with trees and flowerbeds not patches of grass and a kids play area, also fuck off the fountain for a more classy one.

It could be transformed i to something welcoming if the will was there.
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Even the small European cities/towns know how to do a great looking piazza eg Trieste the fact that we can’t is just sad
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
The whole city centre was dangerous in the 70s and 80s but things have moved on since then. There is no excuse for not sorting it. The police and the council tolerate it and so it happens.
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Society seems to be awash with drugs and problems that were a peripheral decades ago. I can't remember what we have now which is the constant smell of weed and the sheer volume of toothless druggies using the "gardens" as an open air creche for the bad and the ugly.
 
mexico1970 said:
Society seems to be awash with drugs and problems that were a peripheral decades ago. I can't remember what we have now which is the constant smell of weed and the sheer volume of toothless druggies using the "gardens" as an open air creche for the bad and the ugly.
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Society is becoming more and more split between rich and poor. Years of austerity, cutting public services and benefits, and a lack of employment opportunities has created a significant underclass. I don’t think anyone wants to be a drug addict. They fall into it as they lose all hope and dealers prey on the afflicted. It can be resolved but there needs to be a political and more importantly public will to solve the problem.
 
TheGhost said:
Society is becoming more and more split between rich and poor. Years of austerity, cutting public services and benefits, and a lack of employment opportunities has created a significant underclass. I don’t think anyone wants to be a drug addict. They fall into it as they lose all hope and dealers prey on the afflicted. It can be resolved but there needs to be a political and more importantly public will to solve the problem.
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Most people I know aren't struggling any where near as much as people were struggling in the mid 60's all the way through to the late 70's. It was a wasteland for poor people back then but the majority didn't turn to drugs shoplifting and mugging. Drugs are more prevalent now and dare I say it more socially acceptable.

The way that public spaces are used to keep most of the anti-social miscreants in plain view is shameful, I agree that they need help but one way of helping them is policing them properly.
 
mexico1970 said:
The fact it genuinely looks like an open air urinal isn't helping.
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When I was in Naples last year Piazza Giuseppe Garibaldi was actually being used as an open urinal. It truly was Italy’s version of Piccadilly gardens. Migrants off their tits, urinating and defecting in public it was a proper eye opener. I’d previously been in the 90’s and it had changed beyond recognition. Anyway with all this going on the Police were on the ball having a word with my lad because he was sat on the floor outside a shop in the train station stating that he was loitering….priorities!
 
mexico1970 said:
Most people I know aren't struggling any where near as much as people were struggling in the mid 60's all the way through to the late 70's. It was a wasteland for poor people back then but the majority didn't turn to drugs shoplifting and mugging. Drugs are more prevalent now and dare I say it more socially acceptable.

The way that public spaces are used to keep most of the anti-social miscreants in plain view is shameful, I agree that they need help but one way of helping them is policing them properly.
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I think there’s a much smaller but more visible minority of underclass. There’s a difference between poor working class and underclass. Underclass are people who have opted or been driven out of society, through unemployment, health issues, poor education, drug use, homelessness and prostitution. All six being linked.

The police and council could have a zero tolerance policy and clear Piccadilly Gardens. It would just move the problem somewhere else. Locking them them up costs £51k a year so that’s not a solution. They need a coordinated plan with huge investment in a wide range of services to address the deeper routed issues.

Burnham (back on topic) should get his priorities right rather than handing money over to Offshore Jim and the Glazers.
 
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TheGhost said:
I agree. But “Locking them them up costs £51k a year so that’s not a solution”.
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We should be doing something, if that something means we have to pay more then so be it. We should be thinking of a cheaper way to lock them up.

An element of understanding, rehabilitation and the big stick would be the way i'd go. Sometimes it makes me wonder if this is ignored because the people who can change it like to see a bit of poverty porn because it makes them feel richer and better.

Like all the graffiti over small bars where middle class people think they are down and dirty with the squalor.
 
mexico1970 said:
We should be doing something, if that something means we have to pay more then so be it. We should be thinking of a cheaper way to lock them up.

An element of understanding, rehabilitation and the big stick would be the way i'd go. Sometimes it makes me wonder if this is ignored because the people who can change it like to see a bit of poverty porn because it makes them feel richer and better.

Like all the graffiti over small bars where middle class people think they are down and dirty with the squalor.
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I agree we need to do something.

If you lock them up - even if you cut that cost in say half - £25k for 10 years is quarter of a millions pounds, per person, before inflation. What are they going to do when they come out of prison? Especially a prison system where rehabilitation isn’t the priority. You need to break the cycle.
 
TheGhost said:
I agree we need to do something.

If you lock them up - even if you cut that cost in say half - £25k for 10 years is quarter of a millions pounds, per person, before inflation. What are they going to do when they come out of prison? Especially a prison system where rehabilitation isn’t the priority. You need to break the cycle.
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Society needs to pay for it if it's needed, I don't believe the human race can be rehabilitated but it would be nice to go out in public without being threatened by a dodgy druggie, for me the punishment has to come first you have to break 'em to make 'em.

The problem with not coming up with a solution is that nothing gets done, main concern right now is to have a clean area where Mancunians and visitors can enjoy without the feral arseholes.

IMHO.
 
mexico1970 said:
Most people I know aren't struggling any where near as much as people were struggling in the mid 60's all the way through to the late 70's. It was a wasteland for poor people back then but the majority didn't turn to drugs shoplifting and mugging. Drugs are more prevalent now and dare I say it more socially acceptable.

The way that public spaces are used to keep most of the anti-social miscreants in plain view is shameful, I agree that they need help but one way of helping them is policing them properly.
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Are you talking about rag fans ?
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Picc Gardens is a huge issue in terms of reputational damage. Most of the city-centre is great but that area is diabolical. They still haven’t got rid of the iron curtain walls. An open square with gardens would be fine. Then get rid of the beggars and drug dealers. Not that difficult but no one has the political will.
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Piccadilly Gardens is past the point of no return. Forget it being a public square, it just needs building on now; build some nice buildings there with a bus and Metrolink station as the bottom floor, and rid it of being a congregating place of the homeless, drug dealers and twats.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Piccadilly Gardens is past the point of no return. Forget it being a public square, it just needs building on now; build some nice buildings there with a bus and Metrolink station as the bottom floor, and rid it of being a congregating place of the homeless, drug dealers and twats.
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The council did that a made Piccadilly Gardens even worse.

One Piccadilly Gardens.

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