Anniversary of the air disaster

No need to call them the scum on this thread. That’s football rivalry. This is about people losing their lives. Plenty of other threads where they can be referred to in whatever way you want. My family lost someone on that flight and so did many other families from both the red and blue sides of the city.
A couple of things I will say about that 50th anniversary derby game is that Sven was absolute class that day as were every city fan in that stadium to a man.I was very proud to a blue that day and moreover when it comes to a tragedy like that Manchester folk come together as one.
 
To be clear I'm not being anti-United but it seems to have been a perfect storm(forgive the pun)of bad things coming together. My dad was/is a pilot who serviced in the RAF in the years following the crash(initially on Shackleton's which performance wise would have been smilier to the Airspeed Ambassador and he maintains that due to the build up of snow/sludge on the runway the plane would never have taken off, moreover the crew should have been aware of that, especially as the accident occurred on their third attempted take-off. Clearly there is more to the story, the investigation that followed was, at very best problematic and we are never likely to get to the bottom of what really happened and why it happened.

 
To be clear I'm not being anti-United but it seems to have been a perfect storm(forgive the pun)of bad things coming together. My dad was/is a pilot who serviced in the RAF in the years following the crash(initially on Shackleton's which performance wise would have been smilier to the Airspeed Ambassador and he maintains that due to the build up of snow/sludge on the runway the plane would never have taken off, moreover the crew should have been aware of that, especially as the accident occurred on their third attempted take-off. Clearly there is more to the story, the investigation that followed was, at very best problematic and we are never likely to get to the bottom of what really happened and why it happened.

pilots were exonerated, partly because 4" of slush on the runway should haxe caused it to be shut. Furthermore, the speed indicator was not reliable following faulty maintenance. Once again the cover-up protected the top table/share holders, familiar story....
 
pilots were exonerated, partly because 4" of slush on the runway should haxe caused it to be shut. Furthermore, the speed indicator was not reliable following faulty maintenance. Once again the cover-up protected the top table/share holders, familiar story....
Yes the pilots were indeed exonerated by the official findings of the report, it doesn't change anything with regards to what I said the findings don't sufficiently explain the chain of events that occurred that night.
 
A couple of things I will say about that 50th anniversary derby game is that Sven was absolute class that day as were every city fan in that stadium to a man.I was very proud to a blue that day and moreover when it comes to a tragedy like that Manchester folk come together as one.
Sven was a real class act as a manager. Not sure the same can be said about his opposite number that day who if I remember rightly didn’t face the post match media.
 
R.I.P to all that died

but also how sad was it to hear about some of the players badly injured and could never play again and united kicked them out of the clubs houses. united stopped paying them and they had to find new homes and without money or jobs some even had kids or wife's pregnant




Jackie Blanchflower, the Northern Ireland defender, was the first to suffer from United’s ill treatment. When it became clear to the club that Blanchflower would never play football again, the club soon cut ties with the man from Belfast. First they withdrew his taxi rights, a crippling blow for a man who struggled to walk after Munich.

Next, Blanchflower was evicted from his club accommodation despite his wife being heavily pregnant at the time. The Reds were quick to cut away those players who were no longer of use. Blanchflower wasn’t the only victim of such ill-treatment either. The Reds withdrew rented accommodation for all the survivors who couldn’t play football again.

Johnny Berry was evicted from his club house and was later fired by United through a letter. Albert Scanlon, another survivor badly affected by the disaster played with United for a short time in the aftermath of Munich before being transferred to Newcastle. Busby allegedly told Scanlon that if he ever fell on hard times Busby would help him out. When Scanlon did turn to Busby, his pleas seemingly fell on deaf ears. Anger at Scanlon’s treatment still affects Albert’s family.

Often ex-players were left to depend upon the kindness of United fans and not the club. In a sign of good will many taxi drivers in Manchester offered the men free transportation. Such respect was not given by United. Greggs isn’t the only one to make such accusations either.

Jeff Connor and Gary James have both recently published works backing up the shocking claims made by Harry Greggs. United’s memorialization of the Munich Air Disaster has often airbrushed out these uncomfortable actions and the Club’s recent history with the survivors hasn’t been much better.


In 1998, on the fortieth anniversary of the disaster United held a testimonial game for the survivors. A £90,000 appearance fee was paid to ex-United legend Eric Cantona to take part in the testimonial. A sum almost twice that given to each of the families of the survivors. The families of the survivors were vocal in their displeasure and it is little surprise that United kept quiet on such matters.

In spite of such abhorrent behaviour, one is left to ask if United are to blame for the way they treated the survivors? The 1950s were an austere time in football, when players’ wages were capped and contracts were dictated by the clubs. United were not alone in ill-treating their former legends, lest one forget West Ham’s allegedly poor relations with Sir Bobby Moore near the end of his life.

Furthermore at the time of the crash, nothing resembling a compensation culture existed in Britain. After two world wars, the British public wanted to see resilience from victims, and not perhaps entitlements (no matter how deserved the survivor’s claims were). United’s treatment of the survivors of Munich was not unique and it is unfair to apply modern day standards to the past.

What is deplorable however is the Club’s recent interactions with the survivor’s families and the continual attempts to air brush from history the Red Devils’ behaviour.


In a football world now awash with money, Manchester United as a club seem content to memorialise the victims, but not compensate the survivors. United as a club have forgotten their past, or are at least are trying to.

RIP to everyone that lost their lives in that horrible event..
I was lucky enough to be in the City end in the 2008 , 50th anniversary game one of the proudest moments I’ve felt being a blue , the fans and the club were brilliant that day.

One thing I do find strange about the Munich anniversary is I don’t ever recall hearing or seeing much about it in the 80’s/90’s and early 2000’s ? (I might be wrong) but it feels like it’s just become a popularity event almost Liverpool style and an excuse for a load of lads to go on the smash in Munich and in and around Old Trafford.
Just my observation that , and don’t mean to offend anyone.
 
RIP to everyone that lost their lives in that horrible event..
I was lucky enough to be in the City end in the 2008 , 50th anniversary game one of the proudest moments I’ve felt being a blue , the fans and the club were brilliant that day.

One thing I do find strange about the Munich anniversary is I don’t ever recall hearing or seeing much about it in the 80’s/90’s and early 2000’s ? (I might be wrong) but it feels like it’s just become a popularity event almost Liverpool style and an excuse for a load of lads to go on the smash in Munich and in and around Old Trafford.
Just my observation that , and don’t mean to offend anyone.
I think it was mourned just as much with more relevance, some of the people mourning could actually remember the disaster in the 70's 80's and 90's.

My view is viewed by some as controversial, you see I believe at some point you have to get over things, the truth is that United have never really mourned this terrible day for Manchester and football, they have always remembered the 8 players who were so tragically taken.

The flowers of Manchester, the busby babes, nothing! nothing ever about the 15 other poor souls lost. For me there is something quite wrong about burdening young fans with grief that happened when their parents and sometimes their grandparents weren't even born.

There needs to be a bit more dignity shown, the age of social media, agents and commercial gain from anything is here,

In my opinion they should have opened Old Trafford on a non match day for a service of remembrance, then when the mourners numbers decreased, moved it too Manchester cathedral. The ceremony should always have been about the 23 people who died in the disaster.

My father was a red and my Mum a blue, like most we all followed mum to the City games, I know the disaster broke my Dad, just like it broke the hearts of all true Mancunians, red or blue, you would need to be at about 75 to remember the disaster, I'm 64 and have no recollection of it.

So if you didn't see it, you weren't even born, why the outpouring of grief? it almost like the commercial machine the money makers want to keep it alive for gain for the ££'s involved and this is disrespectful.

God bless them all all 23, but like I said and believe, It was a terrible day for Manchester and football but at some point you have to get over things.

RIP all 23 who died.
 
God bless them all all 23, but like I said and believe, It was a terrible day for Manchester and football but at some point you have to get over things.

Well I agree, but apart from those who directly lost loved ones in the event (who are probably not over it, and probably never could be), isn’t it just a respectful commemoration? And by remembering such events, doesn’t that potentially contribute to tightened safety standards in the aviation industry (which are hugely higher than they were in the 1950s). By the way, I’ve always read that there was quite a heavy coating of ice on the wings. There’s no way that that plane should have attempted even once to take off.
The Great War is far far away from us now, but it’s remembered every year by people wearing poppies, and the silence observed by some at 11 am on Armistice Day. Obviously there’s no possible comparison between Munich and that in terms of the suffering, but it’s the function of commemorations to just remember the dead and say that, if possible, that shouldn’t happen again. That’s how it seems to me, anyway.
 
Well I agree, but apart from those who directly lost loved ones in the event (who are probably not over it, and probably never could be), isn’t it just a respectful commemoration? And by remembering such events, doesn’t that potentially contribute to tightened safety standards in the aviation industry (which are hugely higher than they were in the 1950s). By the way, I’ve always read that there was quite a heavy coating of ice on the wings. There’s no way that that plane should have attempted even once to take off.
The Great War is far far away from us now, but it’s remembered every year by people wearing poppies, and the silence observed by some at 11 am on Armistice Day. Obviously there’s no possible comparison between Munich and that in terms of the suffering, but it’s the function of commemorations to just remember the dead and say that, if possible, that shouldn’t happen again. That’s how it seems to me, anyway.
Some interesting and fair points, I'm not looking too argue just giving my view, *direct loved ones aside and accepted. I would invite the remaining family members alive to attend Manchester Cathedral on the anniversary date.

How long do you feel the should commemorate for?

I don't believe the way this is commemorated is respectful at all, one year it was actually sponsored, and they never really commemorate the tragedy, the only interest is in the 8 players.

The great war is not a comparison that can be made, we wear our poppies as a mark of respect for all who lost lives in a war indeed all wars, reminding people of the folly of war and hopefully praying it does not happen again.

Hillsborough, Aberfan. Ibrox, Burnden Park so many tragedies, too many tragedies, We hopefully learn from them all,

Munich potentially contribute too aviation safety in 2022, really?
 
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