Annual report 2012/13 released (merged)

[cibaman]

I enjoyed the exchange on BBC Breakfast this morning

"The City players that beat Spurs are on £630,000 per day"

"What? Each?"

"Er, not sure about that"

"Was it £630,000 for the 5 goalscorers?"

"Well, it might be for the squad as a whole"

"Actually it might include the tea lady"

Very enlightening.

 

[Skashion]

I enjoyed the exchange on BBC Breakfast this morning

"The City players that beat Spurs are on £630,000 per day"

"What? Each?"

"Er, not sure about that"

"Was it £630,000 for the 5 goalscorers?"

"Well, it might be for the squad as a whole"

"Actually it might include the tea lady"

Very enlightening.

We had 449 people playing Spurs last night? No wonder it was 5-1, Spurs did very well to keep it down to 5-1 considering they had 10 men playing 449 people.

 

[cibaman]

Ha, apologies, yeh of course I meant UEFA.

So from an accounting point of view, using the example above, if UEFA determined 20m was fair value for these IP sales, would that add 27m directly on to our net loss? (in FFP terms)

We have to declare what we believe is market value not UEFA.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. In theory, could UEFA deem the transactions to not be fair value? I recall there being some kind of technicality in the legislation that said UEFA could re evaluate the "fair value" of Related Party Transactions if they deemed the figure paid was excessive?

I appreciate the accounts have been audited, but I would assume a figure of 47m in related party transactions would be a bit of a red flag to anyone studying the accounts in UEFA's FFP compliance department? You'll know more than me, I'm just speculating.

On another note, have you got any idea what this IP is? Do you think it is what I've speculated in my earlier post? If so, is there any standard accounting evaluation / precedent from other clubs doing something similar that could prove the accurate "fair value" of this IP?

How do these transactions affect our ongoing finances? Are they one off gains, meaning that we'll have to run faster to stand still in 13/14?

 

[aguero93:20]

We have to declare what we believe is market value not UEFA.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. In theory, could UEFA deem the transactions to not be fair value? I recall there being some kind of technicality in the legislation that said UEFA could re evaluate the "fair value" of Related Party Transactions if they deemed the figure paid was excessive?

I appreciate the accounts have been audited, but I would assume a figure of 47m in related party transactions would be a bit of a red flag to anyone studying the accounts in UEFA's FFP compliance department? You'll know more than me, I'm just speculating.

On another note, have you got any idea what this IP is? Do you think it is what I've speculated in my earlier post? If so, is there any standard accounting evaluation / precedent from other clubs doing something similar that could prove the accurate "fair value" of this IP?

How do these transactions affect our ongoing finances? Are they one off gains, meaning that we'll have to run faster to stand still in 13/14?

if pb doesn't get back to you I will when I get in to work, phone screen to small for the report and I want to look at that anyway. but I'm not too sure that's included in the year end loss figure, some seemed to be from the year before when I was skimming through.

 

[hertsblue]

Remember at the time when we announced the 400 million stadium, Campus and kit deal everyone was up in arms about it saying how unfair it was, but when you look at it now, many have got far bigger deals, even lucrative deals for training kits etc, so I think Ethiad have it quite cheap in all honesty and other teams deals which surpassed ours can be used as a benchmark when next negotiating for a bigger deal

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

No financial debt

NONE

Top of the league

Playing the best football seen in the prem since the arsenal team

Im off for a little weep before this dream ends

 

[SrilankanBlue]

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

 

[aguero93:20]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. In theory, could UEFA deem the transactions to not be fair value? I recall there being some kind of technicality in the legislation that said UEFA could re evaluate the "fair value" of Related Party Transactions if they deemed the figure paid was excessive?

I appreciate the accounts have been audited, but I would assume a figure of 47m in related party transactions would be a bit of a red flag to anyone studying the accounts in UEFA's FFP compliance department? You'll know more than me, I'm just speculating.

On another note, have you got any idea what this IP is? Do you think it is what I've speculated in my earlier post? If so, is there any standard accounting evaluation / precedent from other clubs doing something similar that could prove the accurate "fair value" of this IP?

How do these transactions affect our ongoing finances? Are they one off gains, meaning that we'll have to run faster to stand still in 13/14?

if pb doesn't get back to you I will when I get in to work, phone screen to small for the report and I want to look at that anyway. but I'm not too sure that's included in the year end loss figure, some seemed to be from the year before when I was skimming through.

can't make it out from the brief summary there whether they're included in the year end figure, but the only one that would seem to be definitely disallowed would be the £200,000 or so for executive seats, the property one could be for city square etc in which case it should be fair value and allowed. still don't see any reason to worry

 

[jimbopm]

WOW! Amazing stuff, some points in summary.

- DEBT FREE!
- Losses halved for the 2nd consecutive season
- Revenues tripled over 3 years
- Huge chance of Zero loss for 13/14 accounts
- Stadium expansion to at least 54,000
- Academy coming on strong
- Partnerships signed with New York and Melbourne football teams
- Even more commercial deals signed and in the pipeline
- Massive wage earners off the books
- Record Progress in the Champions League
- In a domestic cup final
- Top of The League
- Fantasy football on show

It's great to be a blue, we've deserved it after all those years!

 

[aguero93:20]

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

this naming rights one is interesting.

 

[BringBackSwales]

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

with this latter charge I assume then that there will be an element of this revenue every year, i.e. it is not just a one off?

 

[Centurions]

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

this naming rights one is interesting.

On the accounts it's put down as "Sale of intellectual property to third parties" on page 46. Where does the idea that's it's 'naming rights' come from?

 

[aguero93:20]

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

with this latter charge I assume then that there will be an element of this revenue every year, i.e. it is not just a one off?

yes in theory there will be, wouldn't make sense to sell such a valuable asset for so little, I presume its a lease.
the payment to bobby (and I presume his coaching staff) is a one off payment, would have been easier on this years accounts to write it off over the remaining years of his contract but that doesn't seem to be our normal practice.

-- Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:49 am --

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

this naming rights one is interesting.

On the accounts it's put down as "Sale of intellectual property to third parties" on page 46. Where does the idea that's it's 'naming rights' come from?

ip is usually copyrights, trademarks and naming rights, its an easy conclusion to draw, although I'd love to know who the third party are and if they are rpt, how. probably for the use of club insignia on something, manure real and barca do it all the time.
edit: the times have most likely asked Glick or soriano before tweeting that as well.

 

[BringBackSwales]

@DuckerTheTimes now
Re #MCFC accounts, the wage bill figure of £233.1m was swollen by a huge undisclosed pay off to Roberto Mancini

DuckerTheTimes 8m
Also on #MCFC accounts, revenues were boosted by the one-off sale of two assets for almost £50m

@DuckerTheTimes 6m
The first was the £24.5m sale of the club's naming rights to an external company, thought to be UK based #mcfc

@DuckerTheTimes 5m
The second was the £22.45m sale of other "intellectual property" to New York City & Melbourne Heart franchises & #mcfc ladies

@DuckerTheTimes 4m
Essentially, NYC FC and Melbourne Heart etc are paying for services such as access to #mcfc scouting network and commercial database

with this latter charge I assume then that there will be an element of this revenue every year, i.e. it is not just a one off?

yes in theory there will be, wouldn't make sense to sell such a valuable asset for so little, I presume its a lease.
the payment to bobby (and I presume his coaching staff) is a one off payment, would have been easier on this years accounts to write it off over the remaining years of his contract but that doesn't seem to be our normal practice.

Re Bobby's severance payment I would have thought that as the cost was crystallised in the financial year, and there was no remaining benefit to come from the contract, then it makes sense to write it off in the financial year

 

[Centurions]

Page 21 is interesting although a little bit puzzling :-

MCFC has more followers than any other
European football club on the two main
micro-blogging sites in China

European football clubs with the most followers
on Sina Weibo and Tencent Weibo

RANK CLUB FOLLOWERS
1 Manchester City 4.4m
2 Real Madrid 2.1m
3 Chelsea 2.1m
4 Barcelona 2m
5 AC Milan 1.1m

Admittedly my knowledge of Chinese micro-blogging sites (or any micro-blogging sites) is zero but how is that possible for us at this point in time? And aren't they all rags anyway?

 

[aguero93:20]

with this latter charge I assume then that there will be an element of this revenue every year, i.e. it is not just a one off?

yes in theory there will be, wouldn't make sense to sell such a valuable asset for so little, I presume its a lease.
the payment to bobby (and I presume his coaching staff) is a one off payment, would have been easier on this years accounts to write it off over the remaining years of his contract but that doesn't seem to be our normal practice.

Re Bobby's severance payment I would have thought that as the cost was crystallised in the financial year, and there was no remaining benefit to come from the contract, then it makes sense to write it off in the financial year

you're right, if we were doing creative accounting though we could have reduced the effect. mcfc- ruining creative accounting conspiracy theories.

 

[Chris in London]

we do have Damocles, but we also have 662m of losses carried forward, think it might be there to secure the losses, we can write off future tax bills with those.

So we DO have a billion in the bank? :)

No.

But 'City's going down with £999 million in available capital reserves' lacks a certain je ne sais quoi.

 

[tangaroa]

WOW! Amazing stuff, some points in summary.

- DEBT FREE!
- Losses halved for the 2nd consecutive season
- Revenues tripled over 3 years
- Huge chance of Zero loss for 13/14 accounts
- Stadium expansion to at least 54,000
- Academy coming on strong
- Partnerships signed with New York and Melbourne football teams
- Even more commercial deals signed and in the pipeline
- Massive wage earners off the books
- Record Progress in the Champions League
- In a domestic cup final
- Top of The League
- Fantasy football on show

It's great to be a blue, we've deserved it after all those years!

Nothing to add… just WOW!

Thank you Sheik Mansour :-)

 

[aguero93:20]

Page 21 is interesting although a little bit puzzling :-

MCFC has more followers than any other
European football club on the two main
micro-blogging sites in China

European football clubs with the most followers
on Sina Weibo and Tencent Weibo

RANK CLUB FOLLOWERS
1 Manchester City 4.4m
2 Real Madrid 2.1m
3 Chelsea 2.1m
4 Barcelona 2m
5 AC Milan 1.1m

Admittedly my knowledge of Chinese micro-blogging sites (or any micro-blogging sites) is zero but how is that possible for us at this point in time? And aren't they all rags anyway?

Readily Acquireable Gloryhunters, Asian markets are still open for newcomers, obviously we're more attractive to them.
we stole a march with foreign language social media as well, way ahead of the game there, well done to our marketing staff.

 

[Centurions]

Page 21 is interesting although a little bit puzzling :-

MCFC has more followers than any other
European football club on the two main
micro-blogging sites in China

European football clubs with the most followers
on Sina Weibo and Tencent Weibo

RANK CLUB FOLLOWERS
1 Manchester City 4.4m
2 Real Madrid 2.1m
3 Chelsea 2.1m
4 Barcelona 2m
5 AC Milan 1.1m

Admittedly my knowledge of Chinese micro-blogging sites (or any micro-blogging sites) is zero but how is that possible for us at this point in time? And aren't they all rags anyway?

Readily Acquireable Gloryhunters, Asian markets are still open for newcomers, obviously we're more attractive to them.
we stole a march with foreign language social media as well, way ahead of the game there, well done to our marketing staff.

Lol, like that. And of course this was before this seasons stupendous goal scoring feats and we're already double everybody else.<br /><br />-- Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:01 am --<br /><br />

we do have Damocles, but we also have 662m of losses carried forward, think it might be there to secure the losses, we can write off future tax bills with those.

So we DO have a billion in the bank? :)

No.

But 'City's going down with £999 million in available capital reserves' lacks a certain je ne sais quoi.

Man City ruining rag songs since....