Another new Brexit thread

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Ric said:
I think Johnson was hoping to get the bill rushed through without proper scrutiny, because the more people analyse it, the more they realise that it actually isn’t a very good deal at all. As mentioned before, I think common sense prevailed in Parliament today, thankfully. It’d be absolute madness to rush through a bill of this magnitude, regardless of how fed up the public are getting.
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Brexit isn’t ever going to be a good deal but we voted for it so get on with it.
 
meltonblue said:
Exactly. I get that people think MPs are solely doing it to stifle brexit (and a lot will be doing it for that). To pass a deal signed three days ago with no proper debate, analysis or scrutiny though is insane and if it happened at any other time, people would (rightly) be in uproar.

I think people are forgetting what parliament is there for, which I completely understand given their ineptitude over the past three years. The problem now is the blame will be put at the remain MPs doors for all of this (despite Letwin wanting the deal anyway). The real issue is this deal wasn't negotiated within enough time of the deadline to allow for that proper debate and scrutiny. You can get away with it sometimes if the government has a big enough majority. When they haven't though, then they're at least as much to blame as everyone else.
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What is to debate when when the opposition, SNP, Lib Dems, greens, Plaid Cymru all say that they will reject any deal the government brings?

I was for the amendment last night as your right, it needs debating for them to pass but they are not going to vote to pass it.

That's the same people who demanded parliament sit so they could discuss brexit and who demanded they sit today to have a meaningful vote.

There is a familiar pattern to their demands.

To coin a phrase....they cant be trusted!
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
All it takes is a few countries to say enough is enough, two deals negotiated and still you fuck about like children.

No, no extension that’s it. This deal or no deal.
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Was with you until no deal if this doesn't pass we need a cooling off period. This conversation is not going away you know
 
Ban-jani said:
Brexit isn’t ever going to be a good deal but we voted for it so get on with it.
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Let's go whole hog and get ri
blueinsa said:
What is to debate when when the opposition, SNP, Lib Dems, greens, Plaid Cymru all say that they will reject any deal the government brings?

I was for the amendment last night as your right, it needs debating for them to pass but they are not going to vote to pass it.

That's the same people who demanded parliament sit so they could discuss brexit and who demanded they sit today to have a meaningful vote.

There is a familiar pattern to their demands.

To coin a phrase....they cant be trusted!
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I agree with your first paragraph. Bear in mind, I'm talking about how a fully functioning parliament should work, I've already said ours hasn't been for three years now! Had no one suggested that amendment though, id have been even more annoyed as that would have been a dereliction of duty from all of them (rather than just the majority!)
 
Ric said:
You think the public would reject Johnson’s deal?
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I do because a lot of leave voters won’t vote a second time, we will get the Irish and Scottish threatening all sorts. We will get the laughable working rights and yank angle and remain will win. This is the deluded Labour policy where in their heads they then think they can appease millions of voters by saying look we didn’t fuck you over we gave you your say. Trouble is even though some think the public are idiots they ain’t that daft. The resentment will still be huge. So man up and make the decision to revoke on our behalf and accept the consequences. Like I said save us all the hassle.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I've always believed he switched as a means of then being able to capture the brexit wing of the party and make himself leader. After a heroic defeat in the referendum .

But leave won because Boris, like everyone else, underestimated the level of hatred towards the EU and the establishment who have always supported it, from the British working class.

Boris shit hisself, and went to ground the very next day .
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How do you account for the alleged hatred of the (English) working class toward the EU?

Do people wake up and say "I hate the European Union" and then give reasons? What reasons? Free health treatment abroad? I hate the EU. Free texts? I hate the EU. Strawberries in January? I hate the EU. Lithuanian nurses in hospital? I hate the EU. Don't tell me it's the bendy bananas.

(I'll not try and dissect who you mean by the working class.)
 
grunge said:
show me a picture of a remainer hanging effigies.
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header.jpg
 
meltonblue said:
Let's go whole hog and get ri


I agree with your first paragraph. Bear in mind, I'm talking about how a fully functioning parliament should work, I've already said ours hasn't been for three years now! Had no one suggested that amendment though, id have been even more annoyed as that would have been a dereliction of duty from all of them (rather than just the majority!)
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Fair enough mate.

I was in a compromising mood last night and thought why not have a slight delay to get the deal finally agreed but 10 mins this morning had me thinking it was a foolish idea.
 
Ric said:
I think Johnson was hoping to get the bill rushed through without proper scrutiny, because the more people analyse it, the more they realise that it actually isn’t a very good deal at all. As mentioned before, I think common sense prevailed in Parliament today, thankfully. It’d be absolute madness to rush through a bill of this magnitude, regardless of how fed up the public are getting.
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Have you ever heard of a legislature voting on something so important to the future of the country when those voting get no notice of the detail of the thing they are voting on?
 
Vic said:
Have you ever heard of a legislature voting on something so important to the future of the country when those voting get no notice of the detail of the thing they are voting on?
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Given they have no detail they managed to speak for hours today telling us all what they didn't like about the deal Vic.

Remarkable effort!
 
hilts said:
So man up and make the decision to revoke on our behalf and accept the consequences. Like I said save us all the hassle.
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Ha, I already said a second referendum isn’t likely. Don’t know why people are getting so worked up by a purely hypothetical scenario. Relax mate, you’ll probably get your Brexit deal next week.
 
I saw the leave protest on Deansgate today.

I can’t tell for sure but if I had to predict the stupidest people on Deansgate at the time, I would have guessed them.

Most didn’t have 3 teeth in their skulls.
 
blueinsa said:
Fair enough mate.

I was in a compromising mood last night and thought why not have a slight delay to get the deal finally agreed but 10 mins this morning had me thinking it was a foolish idea.
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I do still think the deal will get through next week unless something comes out in it that should make us all worried about it, not just parliament as I do think the numbers are still there.

Even so though, my MP for example would vote for the deal without knowing anything about it and personally I think that makes him pointless (as I would if my MP would reject it immediately too).
 
Ban-jani said:
I saw the leave protest on Deansgate today.

I can’t tell for sure but if I had to predict the stupidest people on Deansgate at the time, I would have guessed them.

Most didn’t have 3 teeth in their skulls.
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That's our expeditionary force.

Junior lads from Norf FC.

Wait till the main firm comes out to play if we dont leave!
 
meltonblue said:
I do still think the deal will get through next week unless something comes out in it that should make us all worried about it, not just parliament as I do think the numbers are still there.

Even so though, my MP for example would vote for the deal without knowing anything about it and personally I think that makes him pointless (as I would if my MP would reject it immediately too).
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balanced posts mate, like.
 
Ric said:
I think Johnson was hoping to get the bill rushed through without proper scrutiny, because the more people analyse it, the more they realise that it actually isn’t a very good deal at all. As mentioned before, I think common sense prevailed in Parliament today, thankfully. It’d be absolute madness to rush through a bill of this magnitude, regardless of how fed up the public are getting.
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It will be interesting when they get into the detail of how the Northern Ireland solution will practically work. Of course this deal needs proper and robust scrutiny including an economic impact analysis. Keir Starmer was correct to outline the delta between this deal and Mays. I thought the changes to the PD were very illuminating.
 
Ric said:
Ha, I already said a second referendum isn’t likely. Don’t know why people are getting so worked up by a purely hypothetical scenario. Relax mate, you’ll probably get your Brexit deal next week.
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It ain’t my deal, I’m perfectly relaxed but it’s important as we are debating this that the average Joe doesn’t care about parliamentary procedure, he doesn’t care about MPs and their amendments. A second referendum or a general election will not wash in the eyes of those who voted leave. The answer is simple you either try and give them something that resembles what they thought was promised or you dick them. Now if you are going to dick them just do it. Trying to be clever about it won’t get you anywhere. They will still feel dicked.

The options are upset half the population and give the other half what they wanted or make everyone feel like they got a bit of what they want. Probably best go for the second.
 
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