BlueAnorak
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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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What do you mean by "want Brexit done"?No certainty at all as 10% of the electorate voted Remain like me yet want Brexit done.
That said if Labour's deal is on the ballot against Remain, most Leavers would boycott and ignore the vote as it would be BRINO leaving us ain a bigger mess than we're now in.
Most people want it "done" by never wanting to hear about it again. That means abandoning it, not carrying on with the uncertainty of what future deals we have to do (with the EU, with a protectionist USA and with every other country, all thinking that we're mad for leaving the EU).
Ancient Citizen
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Unmitigated claptrap, so this election, called because of Brexit, is going to result in everyone who voted to leave,What do you mean by "want Brexit done"?
Most people want it "done" by never wanting to hear about it again. That means abandoning it, not carrying on with the uncertainty of what future deals we have to do (with the EU, with a protectionist USA and with every other country, all thinking that we're mad for leaving the EU).
now not wanting to hear any more about it, and want it abandoning.
There is blind partisan reasoning and there is incredulity, what you suggest is the first on steroids, and the second the response
of everyone hearing it.
Except Remain may not win. It’s a possibility that we cannot exclude or ignore. Also if we do remain do we just act as if the last three years hasn’t happened? It’s left its mark on member states and how can they be sure it doesn’t repeat itself again in a few years time? Brexit is a failure of the British State, it’s political and media class. These failings don’t absent themselves if we suddenly remain.
Whether we leave, remain, or as is more likely get stuck in some interminable limbo between the two, we still have to ask ourselves what do we want from our relationship with the EU? What is our place and role in Europe? What is the future of our own Union? Is there any point to the UK as it is currently structured? None of these questons are going away no matter who wins the election.
This is a good point but it serves Labour well to be honest. If they were to get in, and it’s a big if, then we vote to remain, the public will keep them in power to avoid Brexit, should that be what the public want. If we do vote to remain I think that may be enough to keep Scotland for the time being too.
These are all just predictions and unlikely as the Tories will get a majority.
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This is a good point but it serves Labour well to be honest. If they were to get in, and it’s a big if, then we vote to remain, the public will keep them in power to avoid Brexit, should that be what the public want. If we do vote to remain I think that may be enough to keep Scotland for the time being too.
These are all just predictions and unlikely as the Tories will get a majority.
Remain if it was a party vs the Tories/TBP would be winning comfortably but it isn't.
Reconciling remain amongst the remain parties must be one of the most catastrophic examples of cross-party politics in history.
Personally I blame Labour because Labour has been catering for itself and not remain. It's failure on Brexit policy has been shambolic which is also why they won't and can't win.
Thanks - you saved me a postUnmitigated claptrap, so this election, called because of Brexit, is going to result in everyone who voted to leave,
now not wanting to hear any more about it, and want it abandoning.
There is blind partisan reasoning and there is incredulity, what you suggest is the first on steroids, and the second the response
of everyone hearing it.
@Vic you really are coming across in all these related threads as simply bitter and frustrated. The memory of those Japanese soldiers that refused to accept that the war was over increasingly comes to mind.
Remain if it was a party vs the Tories/TBP would be winning comfortably but it isn't.
Reconciling remain amongst the remain parties must be one of the most catastrophic examples of cross-party politics in history.
Personally I blame Labour because Labour has been catering for itself and not remain. It's failure on Brexit policy has been shambolic which is also why they won't and can't win.
I think it’ll be anywhere between 55-45 in either direction for a little while yet so do agree with what you are saying.
The Tories will likely win the election, absolutely.
I don’t blame Labour. The membership are 80+% remain and there’s more remain labour voters than leave. They’ve followed their support and have pretty much taken the remain vote off the LibDems.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Echo chamber alert.Most people want it "done" by never wanting to hear about it again.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
They’ve also elected Corbyn and kept him there.I don’t blame Labour. The membership are 80+% remain and there’s more remain labour voters than leave. They’ve followed their support and have pretty much taken the remain vote off the LibDems.
Simply, Labour has to get across that if Johnson wins a majority we are into more "never ending palaver" with a lot of his MPs already pushing for a No Deal end to transition. It just goes on and on.Thanks - you saved me a post
@Vic you really are coming across in all these related threads as simply bitter and frustrated. The memory of those Japanese soldiers that refused to accept that the war was over increasingly comes to mind.
They’ve also elected Corbyn and kept him there.
That’s their prerogative.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
And the nation’s consequence.That’s their prerogative.
journolud
Well-Known Member
Thanks - you saved me a post
@Vic you really are coming across in all these related threads as simply bitter and frustrated. The memory of those Japanese soldiers that refused to accept that the war was over increasingly comes to mind.
The image of the three wise monkeys, see no, hear no, speak no evil about Brexit comes to mind with Boris the cheerleader banging the symbols together and repeating ad nauseum get Brexit done, get Brexit done
The Light Was Yellow Sir
Well-Known Member
There is only 2 ways he gets Brexit done, as he’s imposed yet another artificial date by which to get it done. One is Farage’s ‘clean break Brexit’ or no deal and the other is giving in to every EU demand just to prove he’s Billy Big Bollox and has ‘got it done’. What a shambles.The image of the three wise monkeys, see no, hear no, speak no evil about Brexit comes to mind with Boris the cheerleader banging the symbols together and repeating ad nauseum get Brexit done, get Brexit done
BlueAnorak
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I voted Remain because I had an inkling as to what would happen as a result if Leave won.What do you mean by "want Brexit done"?
Most people want it "done" by never wanting to hear about it again. That means abandoning it, not carrying on with the uncertainty of what future deals we have to do (with the EU, with a protectionist USA and with every other country, all thinking that we're mad for leaving the EU).
The fact is that Leave did win and ALL politicians stated they would respect the vote. They didn't, they lied:
Democracy has to be followed through.
Now if Remainers didn't like it, they should have pushed for a soft leave afterwards so the UK could easily rejoin in a few years time. They didn't, losers consent was withdrawn and they helped kill May's deal even though it was nearly the perfect vehicle to deliver their wishes. Instead they gradually moved the agenda back to Remain because Brexit was just too difficult. The fact that they were making it difficult is irrelevant to their agenda
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BlueAnorak
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Let's not forget that Magic Grandpa's campaign to Remain was just about the worst political campaign in political history. The reason being he actually wanted to leave baring in mind his voting record in the HoC for the previous 36 years - even though most of his Momentum supporters want to Remain.Remain if it was a party vs the Tories/TBP would be winning comfortably but it isn't.
Reconciling remain amongst the remain parties must be one of the most catastrophic examples of cross-party politics in history.
Personally I blame Labour because Labour has been catering for itself and not remain. It's failure on Brexit policy has been shambolic which is also why they won't and can't win.
Correction: Though Jeremy has now been an MP for 36 years, at the time of the Referendum it was only 33 years.
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I voted Remain because I had an inkling as to what would happen as a result if Leave won.
The fact is that Leave did win and ALL politicians stated they would respect the vote. They didn't, they lied:
Democracy has to be followed through.
Now if Remainers didn't like it, they should have pushed for a soft leave afterwards so the UK could easily rejoin in a few years time. They didn't, losers consent was withdrawn and they helped kill May's deal even though it was nearly the perfect vehicle to deliver their wishes. Instead they gradually moved the agenda back to Remain because Brexit was just too difficult. The fact that they were making it difficult is irrelevant to their agenda
That is entirely fair, and i agree tbh. But that doesnt excuse the leavers for killing it either, or making it just as difficult, to pursue a much harder leave than was promised and campaigned on in the referendum for their own agenda.
The middle ground moderates caught suffering in the middle.
Which is why since the may deal collapse i have believed the only reasonable way forward is a referendum on the actual deal agreed vs the deal we have now. Otherwise itl go on and on with both extremes seeking to hijack it or use it for future political gain.
But you said:Simply, Labour has to get across that if Johnson wins a majority we are into more "never ending palaver" with a lot of his MPs already pushing for a No Deal end to transition. It just goes on and on.
"Most people want it "done" by never wanting to hear about it again. That means abandoning it, not carrying on …."
Which is why you are getting the responses that suggest that you/Labour are securely locked into an echo chamber and cannot stand to reconsider their approach
Then you say:
"Simply, Labour has to get across that if Johnson wins a majority we are into more "never ending palaver"......"
Yep - I can see that from your echo chamber POV - but far more simple would have been for Labour to realise many months ago that Brexit is still the 'big issue' and people do not want it simply abandoned and they expect potential PMs to show some leadership!!
Basically Labour has fucked it up royally and are left, along with its supportters like yourself, having to hope that clutching at fragile straws will - on this rare occasion - actually achieve something.
Indeed - but along with that prerogative goes the need to accept responsibility for that choice - no point moaning 'no fair' just because the majority of people do not agree with themThat’s their prerogative.
I posted months ago that I could see the potential for Labour's stance leading to an eventual 'No-Deal' outcome - I got the 'expected outrage and denial' response from the usual suspects
HmmmmmThe image of the three wise monkeys, see no, hear no, speak no evil about Brexit comes to mind with Boris the cheerleader banging the symbols together and repeating ad nauseum get Brexit done, get Brexit done
But that post/image would have a lot more going for it if the polls were showing that people do not agree with the 'wise'
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