Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

Leavers blame remainers for what leavers want being shit.

Which "leave" position did remainers agree on?

That's right, they didn't. They just wanted to remain at all costs.

 

[Ban-jani]

Which "leave" position did remainers agree on?

That's right, they didn't. They just wanted to remain at all costs.

That’s nothing to do with what I said is it?

The point remains leavers blame remainers for Brexit being shit, it happens every day.


Anyway, why wouldn’t we want to remain at all costs? Do you think Farage wouldn’t want to still leave had Remain won?

Do you think Corbyn wants a Tory Government?

No, you hide your time until you can make a change, that’s how democracies work.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

That’s nothing to do with what I said is it?

The point remains leavers blame remainers for Brexit being shit, it happens every day.


Anyway, why wouldn’t we want to remain at all costs? Do you think Farage wouldn’t want to still leave had Remain won?

Do you think Corbyn wants a Tory Government?

No, you hide your time until you can make a change, that’s how democracies work.

I want to Remain at all costs. But the thing that makes me want to bang heads against walls is that there are no costs. Only gargantuan financial gains.

 

[Metal Biker]

That’s nothing to do with what I said is it?

The point remains leavers blame remainers for Brexit being shit, it happens every day.


Anyway, why wouldn’t we want to remain at all costs? Do you think Farage wouldn’t want to still leave had Remain won?

Do you think Corbyn wants a Tory Government?

No, you hide your time until you can make a change, that’s how democracies work.

Because remainers didn't back any leave position. They just argued to remain when the question had already been answered.

Rather than choose a leave position they found most tolerable, therefore respecting the democratic method, like petulent children they refused, threw their toys out of the pram and went against the electorates decision.

 

[lust overlord]

I want to Remain at all costs. But the thing that makes me want to bang heads against walls is that there are no costs. Only gargantuan financial gains.

There is a cost though.

While I broadly agree with you,the fact is remain lost the referendum.

The cost will be people who voted leave for whatever reason,being told their vote was ignored..it isn't right.

We need a proper democratic solution.

Not expecting it mind you.

 

[dave_blue12]

The Referendum was bought and paid for therefore I will never respect the result.

The cunts behind it belong behind bars but sadly in our wonderful country they are currently immune to prosecution.

I hope to live to see this state of affairs changed but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BobKowalski]

Because remainers didn't back any leave position. They just argued to remain when the question had already been answered.

Rather than choose a leave position they found most tolerable, therefore respecting the democratic method, like petulent children they refused, threw their toys out of the pram and went against the electorates decision.

More absolute bollocks. If the Tory Govt had offered a sensible Brexit which involved keeping close economic ties with the EU but a political exit most Remainers would have gone along with it, me included. We even said this on the Brexit thread immediately after the referendum. The country would have accepted a compromise that reflected the closeness of the result.

Instead May went all hard Brexit and effectively told half the country to do one and we ended up with a polarised and toxic situation. I’d have accepted the WA but Brexiteers went all jihad on its fucking arse so as far as I’m concerned the whole sorry mess can fuck off and die. The only options left are no deal or no Brexit and I really couldn’t give a shit at the consequences either will bring.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

There is a cost though.

While I broadly agree with you,the fact is remain lost the referendum.

The cost will be people who voted leave for whatever reason,being told their vote was ignored..it isn't right.

We need a proper democratic solution.

Not expecting it mind you.

Second referendum removes that cost totally.

Was in a meeting with some serious finance people today and concern is ramping up towards panic as the pound and stock markets plummet.

Even more frustratingly, if Article 50 is revoked by whatever means, they forecast a massive economic bounce, as investment projects kick off and confidence returns.

I’ve never felt more rage at a section of my fellow Brits. Not the ones who voted for Leave but the ones who are sticking by it even now. There are not words I can use on this forum to describe my anger at their gullibility or idiocy.

 

[Vic]

Because remainers didn't back any leave position. They just argued to remain when the question had already been answered.

Rather than choose a leave position they found most tolerable, therefore respecting the democratic method, like petulent children they refused, threw their toys out of the pram and went against the electorates decision.

Except if the "winners" had said "that waa close, let's just join EFTA" (which you support) the losers would have said OK - especially as the leave campaign implied exactly that. I'm sure by now you know what they said about a free trade zone...

 

[lust overlord]

Second referendum removes that cost totally.

Was in a meeting with some serious finance people today and concern is ramping up towards panic as the pound and stock markets plummet.

Even more frustratingly, if Article 50 is revoked by whatever means, they forecast a massive economic bounce, as investment projects kick off and confidence returns.

I’ve never felt more rage at a section of my fellow Brits. Not the ones who voted for Leave but the ones who are sticking by it even now. There are not words I can use on this forum to describe my anger at their gullibility or idiocy.

2nd ref is long shot.

My gut instinct is some sort of dressed up deal is what we end up with.

Boris has a future election to win after all.
All us peons will lose (with a small l rather than a capital).

 

[cibaman]

You’ve misunderstood what I’ve said on Italy. I said we were one of the fastest and then became 2nd slowest, just pipped to last spot by them. I wasn’t saying they were one of the fastest 4 years ago.

The EU’s entire position is to act on behalf of its members. That is to trade with the best markets and to ensure prosperity across the continent. Now they aren’t always successful and nations will always fall into recession from time to time, it’s just what happens unfortunately, but the EU’s purpose on trade is to ensure success for Europe.

I think the important thing is to look at how good we had it, as opposed to how other members have. The fact is we were estimated to be better off, despite the contributions made. You’re right to say we were in a great position because we resisted full integration. That’s not a condemnation of the EU though, that’s what Boris SHOULD have been talking about when he spouted “cake and eat it”.

I think you and I will both agree that whatever benefits there were to leaving have quickly disappeared and we’re left with a pointless Withdrawal Agreement, that keeps us locked in without having a say, or a no deal which would be a catastrophe on all levels.

We’ve had a go, we’ve fucked it and now is the time to revoke A50 and wait for a time in future when a party can come up with a specific plan to leave and implement it. That being said, I’m uncomfortable with it being revoked without another vote but we’re running out of ideas.

No deal or revoke would both tear the country apart for the next 10 years. A second referendum would only have credibility if there was a genuine Hard leave option, and that might win.

The least worst option would be to leave, without a referendum, with the softest possible brexit eg Norway for now. Nobody would be entirely happy with it but it’s possible that the country would accept it.

 

[yerwot?]

No deal or revoke would both tear the country apart for the next 10 years. A second referendum would only have credibility if there was a genuine Hard leave option, and that might win.

B2B.....the country is already ruptured, and wtf is a Genuine hard leave? . The squeals of outrage by the hard-right thatcher resurrectors would be drowned out by the roars of " thank fuck for that" by the rest of the country when revoke is enacted.

 

[bluethrunthru]

No deal or revoke would both tear the country apart for the next 10 years. A second referendum would only have credibility if there was a genuine Hard leave option, and that might win.

The least worst option would be to leave, without a referendum, with the softest possible brexit eg Norway for now. Nobody would be entirely happy with it but it’s possible that the country would accept it.

Leaving has already split the country probably for a generation - the hardness of the exit will determine the extent of the backlash from those on the Leave and Remain sides who find themselves adversely affected or who find the truth of Brexit is not the vision that they voted for. Forget Norway options etc - the EU ain't talking and the longer they keep that stance the less likely it is that Johnson will do anything but have us crash out.

He could be the shortest time serving PM ever at this rate yet have the distinction of collapsing the GFA and hastening the breakup of the union with Scotland. Quite a potential CV.

 

[Ban-jani]

Because remainers didn't back any leave position. They just argued to remain when the question had already been answered.

Rather than choose a leave position they found most tolerable, therefore respecting the democratic method, like petulent children they refused, threw their toys out of the pram and went against the electorates decision.

Who are you on about?

MP’s?

Most MP’s voted for a form of Brexit in one way or another. Whether that was Labour’s position, the Withdrawal Agreement, Nick Boles’s CM 2.0, Ken Clarke’s etc. etc.

What’s funny is there’s remain supporting MP’s who have voted for Brexit more times than the ERG have.

Had I been an MP, I’d have reluctantly voted through the WA, despite it being shit.

The problem is nobody can agree on the best way to go forward. A lot of leavers are now rallying behind No Deal because it’s the only alternative to the above.

This isn’t the fault of remainers, not by a long shot. This is the fault of the current PM, Farage and the other cretins.

 

[Metal Biker]

Who are you on about?

MP’s?

Most MP’s voted for a form of Brexit in one way or another. Whether that was Labour’s position, the Withdrawal Agreement, Nick Boles’s CM 2.0, Ken Clarke’s etc. etc.

What’s funny is there’s remain supporting MP’s who have voted for Brexit more times than the ERG have.

Had I been an MP, I’d have reluctantly voted through the WA, despite it being shit.

The problem is nobody can agree on the best way to go forward. A lot of leavers are now rallying behind No Deal because it’s the only alternative to the above.

This isn’t the fault of remainers, not by a long shot. This is the fault of the current PM, Farage and the other cretins.

No I mean general public remainers. Like you. What was your leave option? What was any remainers "leave" option? Funnily enough, none of you have agreed to a leave option. You just wanted to remain, yet you're asking where the confusion lay.

 

[bluethrunthru]

No I mean general public remainers. Like you. What was your leave option? What was any remainers "leave" option? Funnily enough, none of you have agreed to a leave option. You just wanted to remain, yet you're asking where the confusion lay.

Remainers didn't have a leave option - thats why we voted remain ! It was a simple remain choice. Where all the issues have arisen is that Leave wasn't simply that - there were a myriad of visions of what leave represented to Leave voters. If you had a vote on Remain - Leave ( hard Brexit ) - Leave ( soft Brexit ) - Leave ( no deal ) - Remain would walk it as Leavers collected around their preferred option and it would illustrate the stupidity of how Cameron arranged his referendum with no thought about the other side - he was backing remain and arrogantly assumed a win based on his Indyref triumph.

 

[Metal Biker]

Remainers didn't have a leave option - thats why we voted remain ! It was a simple remain choice. Where all the issues have arisen is that Leave wasn't simply that - there were a myriad of visions of what leave represented to Leave voters. If you had a vote on Remain - Leave ( hard Brexit ) - Leave ( soft Brexit ) - Leave ( no deal ) - Remain would walk it as Leavers collected around their preferred option and it would illustrate the stupidity of how Cameron arranged his referendum with no thought about the other side - he was backing remain and arrogantly assumed a win based on his Indyref triumph.

You lost the referendum, so what was your leave option in the wake of a remain defeat?

You didn't have one, because you were petulent. Had you supported a leave option, rather than cling to a non-existant remain option, the whole issue would have been sorted by now, with a majority approved, both leave and remain, conclusion.

 

[Ban-jani]

No I mean general public remainers. Like you. What was your leave option? What was any remainers "leave" option? Funnily enough, none of you have agreed to a leave option. You just wanted to remain, yet you're asking where the confusion lay.

I’ve just told you what my Leave option was. I’ve literally just said I would have reluctantly voted through the Withdrawal Agreement, if I was an MP.

Remain voters have absolutely no control over what happens at this point in time. Absolutely none.

Nor are they responsible for anything that’s happened.

They also have the right to be against Brexit at all costs, as a free society it is their choice to support any political position they like.

What are you asking people to do, change their minds to supporting this utter shit show this Government has cooked up?

Do you expect Labour voters to now support the Tories and cheer on austerity?

No, remainers are well within their rights and absolutely correct, given the overwhelming evidence, to be against Brexit.

 

[bluethrunthru]

You lost the referendum, so what was your leave option in the wake of a remain defeat?

You didn't have one, because you were petulent. Had you supported a leave option, rather than cling to a non-existant remain option, the whole issue would have been sorted by now, with a majority approved, both leave and remain, conclusion.

ahh - you didn't say that - you have added the caveat of the option in the wake of defeat.

Well ( sigh ) as I have said numerous times ( I know I have told you 4 or 5 times alone ) we should have launched A50 the day after and left as quickly as possible. It was always the case that with such a tight result the longer things dragged on the more tribal it would become - and it has. My preference is still Remain however.

 

[Metal Biker]

I’ve just told you what my Leave option was. I’ve literally just said I would have reluctantly voted through the Withdrawal Agreement, if I was an MP.

Remain voters have absolutely no control over what happens at this point in time. Absolutely none.

Nor are they responsible for anything that’s happened.

They also have the right to be against Brexit at all costs, as a free society it is their choice to support any political position they like.

What are you asking people to do, change their minds to supporting this utter shit show this Government has cooked up?

Do you expect Labour voters to now support the Tories and cheer on austerity?

No, remainers are well within their rights and absolutely correct, given the overwhelming evidence, to be against Brexit.

And other remainers?

there wasn't one, not one they could agree on. As I said, it's funny, what remainers criticise leave voters for not having a "concensus" on what leave means, neither did remainers.