Another new Brexit thread

[stonerblue]

You sound affronted that the UK is asking for things it wants in the process of negotiations?

I asked for 2k off the sticker price of a used car last year. They told me to fuck off..

 

[hgblue]

And of course - now the EU's purpose has been served - the subject of Ireland's policy on Corporation Tax is back under discussion as part of strings attached to pandemic grants

Funny how things work out....

There are a few member states who used to hide behind the Brits and let us take the flak for opposing integration. Now we’re out of the way I bet a few of them are regretting our departure.

 

[hgblue]

I asked for 2k off the sticker price of a used car last year. They told me to fuck off..

Well he wasn’t a very good salesman was he? In my experience it’s normal for both sides to reach a compromise if a deal is to be done.

 

[Metal Biker]

Well he wasn’t a very good salesman was he? In my experience it’s normal for both sides to reach a compromise if a deal is to be done.

I'd like to know the name of the dealership. An employee telling a customer to "fuck off"? Not very professional.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It really is not difficult to understand - the EU are seeking for the UK to cede to them control over the key policies that would ensure that we cannot be competitive with the EU27 at any future point.

Why so many Remainers cannot see/understand it can only be due to a lack of understanding of how these controls would be used or wilfulness simply because they are locked into a need to be proven right on a football forum - they have chosen their side and are going to stick with the team no matter what they hear.

TBF - despite his inconsistency in so many ways yesterday - I give more credit to @BobKowalski on this - at least he had some honesty to admit his full support for a federal Europe yesterday:


Bob was at least admitting that:

a) he wants a fully federal pan-Europe outcome and the UK within it
b) that he recognises that the EU will use the pandemic to herd nations into increased levels of federalism - straightforward exploitation of the crisis as they have previously

Bob is not stupid - but for years he has avoided being so open about his aspirations.

But that is not what most Remain posters in the country and on here want is it?

Let those who do want the UK in a fully federal EU declare it now - I bet there is not a flood of posts onto the thread

But this how those truly committed to the 'EU project' operate

The EU stealthily and incremental increases its control over the sovereign nations through taking such opportunities as the offered by the pandemic and - as Bob explains - every previous crisis and when required through treaty by treaty

The hypocrisy of Remain is laid bare by the amount of posts you have seen slagging of Leave for lies during the campaign - yet of course the Remain campaign lied so much during the campaign with regard to the future federalist direction of the EU - the EU shepherds don't feel that there is any need for the herd to know where they are being moved to

Just one example that was obvious at the time so had to be lied about - remember - no EU ambition for an army?

It is full on federalism that is the destination and if you stay on the train that is where you will end up and vetoes and opt-outs offered only protection to the gullible as they were already planned to be phased out. It was the EU's arrogance and contempt for electorates - including the UKs in the pre-referendum period (Tusk in particular) - that led to a significant part of the herd breaking loose.

Whilst they regret that - through the Level Playing Field regulations (sounds soooo reasonable described like that doesn't it) they are now seeking to steer us towards a controlled holding pen where we cannot possibly flourish and where we will become unhappy and pine for the rest of the herd so that they can round us up at a future point.

Its a fair challenge. To answer the question though you need to have a vision for what you want the UK to look like in 2, 5, 10, 20 years and then decide what political scenario is most able to deliver that. So if you want a nation that is socially inclusive, well educated, good social and health services, looks after the aged with pensions they can live on, poverty eradicated as far as possible, tackling climate change in a sensitive way, freedom of speech, a responsible media.... Do you believe that will be best delivered by the UK as a separate, independent nation, governed within more or less current structures or by being part of a United States of Europe with full fiscal, political integration.
My gut tells me we will not achieve the UK I would like to see (given the evidence of the last 10 years) as an independent nation.

 

[stonerblue]

Did you not receive your tax payer funded pro EU propaganda leaflet? It was sent to every household. Did you miss the Prime Minister, Chancellor, Governor of the Bank of England, the IMF, the president of the US, and Bob Twatting Geldof banging on about this for months? You only noticed what was written on the side of a bus?

I got several leaflets from various groups, non of which explained the minutiae of leaving/staying. There were a lot of soundbites written on flyers, buses, bridges and flags but the real, important details we the public needed to know before making our minds up wouldn't fit.
As for the opinions of various people you mention, and lots of others, they were just that, opinions.

 

[BobKowalski]

Nope; opening up to the rest of the world, and not focusing solely on one isolated protectionist bloc like the EU.

There's a big ol' world out there, if you haven't noticed.

We are putting up barriers to Europe and to other countries it has FTA’s with to - what exactly again? I can never get past the double think of raising barriers to people and trade in order to reduce barriers to people and trade.

 

[stonerblue]

Well he wasn’t a very good salesman was he? In my experience it’s normal for both sides to reach a compromise if a deal is to be done.

He'd have been a shit salesman if he'd agreed on that discount. Sticker price was 2.1k.

 

[stonerblue]

I'd like to know the name of the dealership. An employee telling a customer to "fuck off"? Not very professional.

When someone walks into my shop and demands i do a job for them at half the advertised cost i usually tell them to fuck off to timpsons.

 

[yerwot?]

I'd like to know the name of the dealership. An employee telling a customer to "fuck off"? Not very professional.

Snitch..

 

[stonerblue]

Anyone gonna answer my question regarding sovereignty?

 

[Metal Biker]

We are putting up barriers to Europe and to other countries it has FTA’s with to - what exactly again? I can never get past the double think of raising barriers to people and trade in order to reduce barriers to people and trade.

Ah yes, the blameless EU once again. Remind me, who else has to endure these "barriers" besides the UK?

Ah yes, all non-EU trading/member nations! Yet it's the UK that's the problem...

I don't want to see us raise trade barriers, the EU decides these barriers must remain in place for all non-EU members in order to protect their bloc. They could decide to open up free trade at any time they liked.

 

[Metal Biker]

Snitch..

It speaks!

Instead of just "liking" everything like a sycophantic poodle.

 

[Metal Biker]

Anyone gonna answer my question regarding sovereignty?

You don't have a question. It's a snarky remark.

 

[hgblue]

He'd have been a shit salesman if he'd agreed on that discount. Sticker price was 2.1k.

In any negotiation the buyer has a maximum price he will pay and the seller has a minimum price he will accept. Let’s say you’re the buyer for a company called UK and the salesman works for a company called the EU. The salesman has been instructed by his bosses that under no circumstances is he to accept a penny less than the 2.1k asking price because you’ve dealt with this company before and the buyer always caves in the end. However, the UK is under new management and the new buyer has been told he can’t offer more than 1.5k. The salesman starts the negotiation quite arrogantly because he expects the buyer to cave as in previous negotiations. However it quickly becomes apparent that he’s dealing with a completely different kettle of fish. The buyer realises the salesman has his hands tied so gives him the opportunity to discuss the situation with his bosses. That’s where we are now.

 

[stonerblue]

You don't have a question. It's a snarky remark.

How is;
''Can anyone tell me how i will know when we get our sovereignty back?''
not a question?
I genuinely want to know what peoples idea of sovereignty is. If you want to see a simple question as 'snarky' instead of giving your thoughts/answer there's not much i can do about it.
Anyone else?

 

[Metal Biker]

How is;
''Can anyone tell me how i will know when we get our sovereignty back?''
not a question?
I genuinely want to know what peoples idea of sovereignty is. If you want to see a simple question as 'snarky' instead of giving your thoughts/answer there's not much i can do about it.
Anyone else?

You know full well what you're doing, don't lie.

No-one's falling for it.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Soverignty?
OK I'll bite.
It's easy. Not allowing a non UK legal authority to have any control over UK law.
UK law should be fully under the control of parliament and the people who elect MPs. I.e MPs cannot vote away primacy without a referendum.
Any trade deal must similarly be totally under the control of UK law and parliament.
Incidently, I think that we should also deal in UK law with the Council of Europe continually ratcheting up our obligations on human rights. The right not to be killed or injured should have primacy.

 

[Gabriel]

An interesting question will be to see how international fair trade evolves as countries/blocs retreat behind their borders to cope with first the health and then economic effects of the virus. With the US increasingly hostile to China and threatening to withdraw from the WTO, albeit still unlikely, the new arena to which Brexiteers pointed may no longer exist. Similarly, the EU that the UK left will look radically different. It faces another decade, maybe more, of slow growth/stagnation, but with less 'internalization' possible it may accelerate internal integration. The arguments of 2016 already seem dated in the new reality of 2020.

 

[hgblue]

An interesting question will be to see how international fair trade evolves as countries/blocs retreat behind their borders to cope with first the health and then economic effects of the virus. With the US increasingly hostile to China and threatening to withdraw from the WTO, albeit still unlikely, the new arena to which Brexiteers pointed may no longer exist. Similarly, the EU that the UK left will look radically different. It faces another decade, maybe more, of slow growth/stagnation, but with less 'internalization' possible it may accelerate internal integration. The arguments of 2016 already seem dated in the new reality of 2020.

I predict a comprehensive US/UK trade deal.