Another new Brexit thread

[BlueHammer85]

Ties in with Cummings statement the other day that he would only be around for the next six months and then go

Johnson will be off to his place of birth , no doubt having squared it all off with Trump.

The rest of us will be left to pick over the bones.

we could always rejoin ...

 

[mcfc1632]

Do you think that this incompetent government will discover hidden talents when it comes to negotiating brexit? Is there not a bit more to incompetence than getting snared up in EU controls?

From where we are in June 2020 - most certainly not

Absolutely not

If we can avoid that incompetence and get clear then business leaders and professionals can steer future governments in the decades to come - be them Labour or Tory

I think that we benefit from not having the government much involved actively in Brexit for 6 months

Shows what professionals can do rather than muppets like Robbins

 

[west didsblue]

Well they are going to be building Renault cars in Sunderland as well from now on, but I'm sure you'll ignore it.
The Barcelona plant closure is, I grant you more likely to do with the EU trade deal with Japan.
The Sunderland plant is Nissan's most efficient - which is a major plus for keeping it open.

Talks about moving Kadjar and Captur production to Sunderland are on hold indefinitely due to the current political climate.

If there’s no FTA agreed, it’s hard to imagine talks restarting. There’s no fucking way Renault are going to manufacture vehicles in a country where there is a 10% tariff on finished cars going to the EU and also tariffs on components going from the EU to the UK.

 

[bluethrunthru]

If we can avoid that incompetence and get clear then business leaders and professionals can steer future governments in the decades to come

so Brexit Britain will be steered by business and professionals ???? Fuck the electorate who were told they were taking back control eh?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Talks about moving Kadjar and Captur production to Sunderland are on hold indefinitely due to the current political climate.

No Deal and its not happening. The zealots point to it being the most productive factory for the group but the margins are thin - add 10% tariff to the costs and its not profitable. If you make a zillion cars but lose money on every one its not happening.

When Leyland launched the original Mini the guys at Ford were perplexed. How could they do it at the price? Innovative engineering yet it undercut the new Anglia in price. Ford bought a few and pulled them apart - they were masters at building cars down to a specific price and keeping it there to the penny - and they found out that although the Mini had taken off and they had to rethink the Anglia ( Escort Mk1 incoming ) Leyland were losing over £50 on every Mini sold. In the early 60's that was a sum of money.

Anyway the rest is history - with a plan like that Leyland/BLMC/British Leyland/Austin Rover/ Rover Group...we all know what happened there whereas you can still buy a Focus..........car makers follow the Ford model these days not the Leyland one - selling cars at a loss is a bust.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

so Brexit Britain will be steered by business and professionals ???? Fuck the electorate who were told they were taking back control eh?

My experience as a professional and from working with professionals is that we tend to think Brexit is a load of bollox and no good will come from it

 

[bluethrunthru]

My experience as a professional and from working with professionals is that we tend to think Brexit is a load of bollox and no good will come from it

quite a lot of business does too - methinks 1632 is doing his making shit up to satisfy his own need for reassurance thing.....

 

[Vic]

I am puzzled why we are supposed to die in a ditch over something that is such a tiny percentage of our economy..............oh no its come back to me - populist jingosim

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-52898059?

I'm not sure the Cornish fishermen are quite so keen on No Deal these days.

It's mainly the Scottish Fishermens Federation (representing the bigger players in the industry who own the quotas) who are shouting "no surrender" but even if they could expand the fleet it would be unlikely to be Scottish crews. A quarter of deckhands in 2015 were from the Philippines and a fifth of engineers in the fleet also Filipino. Workers from Latvia to Ghana also work on the boats. Some 28% of the offshore Scottish fisheries workforce is not Scottish.

At its worst, it would just mean foreign owners with foreign crews landing British fish at foreign ports (well, perhaps the worst would be losing the right to land the fish into foreign ports and having no market for the extra fish we could catch).

Bit of a mistake in there though: "the transition deal states that any delay has to be for at least two years". At most two years.

 

[Vic]

So - why did Nissan chose Sunderland over Barcelona?

Falling demand - and perhaps not enough bribes (state aid) though I've not checked against the billion pounds Sunderland has had.
https://www.just-auto.com/news/nissan-barcelona-fights-to-win-make-or-break-pickup_id107791.aspx

 

[Vic]

You have not a clue about negotiations do you?

You are looking at this from the wrong end of the telescope

How many jobs are related to the fishing industry in just France alone??

You do know don't you?

It can be very helpful in negotiations to have full control over something that is not essential to you - but is to the other party

As I said...……….

You have not a clue about negotiations do you?

Hurrah. He's cracked. Actually mentioned fish. But managed to hide whether he knows how many jobs are related to fishing in France, under the usual snide implication that he knows and you don't.

Fishing itself I'm guessing 10,262 jobs. Plus three times more in aquaculture and processing.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Fishing @24k Jobs and £1.4bn to the economy
The Motor assembly industry 40k jobs and over £6bn..............yeah right lets wear that self harm badge with pride

 

[Vic]

From where we are in June 2020 - most certainly not

Absolutely not

If we can avoid that incompetence and get clear then business leaders and professionals can steer future governments in the decades to come - be them Labour or Tory

I think that we benefit from not having the government much involved actively in Brexit for 6 months

Shows what professionals can do rather than muppets like Robbins

The business leaders and professionals who never wanted Brexit. And I give it two months before Frost becomes a muppet.

(Professional what? Muppets?)

 

[bluethrunthru]

Falling demand - and perhaps not enough bribes (state aid) though I've not checked against the billion pounds Sunderland has had.
https://www.just-auto.com/news/nissan-barcelona-fights-to-win-make-or-break-pickup_id107791.aspx

I suspect that what @BlueAnorak fails to grasp in the point @mcfc1632 was making in terms of how we will be governed post Brexit........business will try to shape the future. They offered the carrot last week and the skip this week. The UK electorate has no say its down to the Govt to be lobbied by business and professionals then make a decision on what we do based on the most/least harmful threat - welcome to the new world

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Reading the posts from yesterday, it might be the tipping point of the start of the realisation that we’re not going to get the deal we want and the Brexit trumpeters seem to be damping down their rhetoric in trying to promote what it can do from 5 to 4 (using a Covid “road map scale”)

Like Covid, come the end of the year, our government will be saying we are at 4 whilst we accept 1 to prevent economic suicide. It’ll be the EU’s fault too. They failed to accept our “favourable” terms.

We’ll then struggle on WTO terms, desperately trying to do trade deals with the other 180ish countries and not comprehend why:

a) we aren’t as strong as the EU as a negotiating power and
b) Not being able to better the EU deal in place due to their clause in their deal not being able to be bettered.

The problem across the world is multi national companies not paying their fair share of tax in each country. Therefore countries don’t have the money to fund infrastructure.

People are feeling the pinch and vote for change. Sadly, this has coincided with social media and giving a voice to everyone.

When people feel insecure, they look at people not born in the country as the primary source of blame.

People had had enough of austerity in 2016 and voted to stick two fingers up at the government in a referendum where they believed their vote could cause change.

It has. We left the EU and economically, we are going to be far worse off in the next 10 years. That is before the pandemic struck.

I can only hope for a FTA with the EU. Anything else is going to be hard on the lower earning households.

 

[mcfc1632]

Fishing @24k Jobs and £1.4bn to the economy
The Motor assembly industry 40k jobs and over £6bn..............yeah right lets wear that self harm badge with pride

In which nation are those jobs?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

For now though, go and watch a couple of episodes of springwatch and let the wonder of nature enhance your feeling of wellbeing. You will feel much better for it.

You'd think so, but I can't watch it, because of that professional simperer Chwis Packham.
''Heawing the Wobbins, seeing the wooks in the twees, the beauty of spwing is all awound.'

Anyway, back to all things Bwexit.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Just read your post again - and yes, you say...………...

"My single point in this exchange is the incompetence and dishonesty of our government nothing more, nothing less. You seem to agree that is the case so what the hell are you expanding it for."

Ok fair enough - despite insinuations from others I have zero love for Johnson or his cabinet. For me they get two massive accolades...…..

1. They have stopped the treacherous May appeasement and may actually get us genuinely out of the EU

2. They stopped Corbyn/McDonnell getting into power

Beyond those outcomes I care little for Johnson or his government - I just want continuity until Brexit is (properly/fully) done.

So my reaction was because for me these matters are clear and separate - whereas you seem to be conflating them

My points have been that Johnson's incompetence is a temporary matter and he can be fucked off. That should not muddle the importance of a good Brexit outcome - whereas you seemed to be conflating the issues, as if Brexit should be perhaps paused because of Johnson's incompetence. Once that happens the road to getting Brexit stopped is open again.

Your posts still read that way - so I retain those views - but I can accept that I was a bit 'abrupt' in my responses.

I repeat, I am not for a pause in Brexit. On that you are just wrong.

I talked yesterday about a 'fair deal for both parties' let me say a little more about that.

LPF is not a EU plot to hamstring the UK's future prosperity, it is a normal part of any trade agreement negotiation be that USA/Mexico, EU/Japan and typically the larger trading party (EU in our case) will want the more stringent rules to be applied to protect their market. All quite normal. The EU has called out the need for strong LPF as part of any FTA from the start. It was committed to by May and then Johnson in the PD. That Frost has proposed the very minimum and refuses to commence detailed negotiations around them tells me quite a lot about the seriousness with which the UK are trying their best to get a deal. After all Johnson has already committed Northern Ireland to LPF provisions. If he implemented something entirely different for the rest of the UK that would bring a new level of complexity to the NI solution.

If we were seriously trying to get a deal we would be in detailed negotiations around LPF right now as there is plenty opportunity for compromise to be made - for example we might give ground on Environmental standards and workers rights - Johnson has already claimed ours are better that the EU's so whats the problem with signing up to that? In return the EU might give on governance and allow the UK to self govern rather than the ECJ. We cant tell what would be possible without doing the spadework.

Johnson seems to want a 'distant' relationship with the EU but, enjoy all the benefits of a FTA for both goods and services whilst having the ability to undercut the EU left right and centre. Yeah right.

So a fair deal for me is one that sees compromise on both sides and reflects the reality of the situation, we are a major economic power sitting on the doorstep of a larger one and any agreement will reflect that reality.

 

[Saddleworth2]

You'd think so, but I can't watch it, because of that professional simperer Chwis Packham.
''Heawing the Wobbins, seeing the wooks in the twees, the beauty of spwing is all awound.'

Anyway, back to all things Bwexit.

I think he is brilliant. His knowledge and level of detail is something other presenters can only aspire to.

 

[journolud]

You'd think so, but I can't watch it, because of that professional simperer Chwis Packham.
''Heawing the Wobbins, seeing the wooks in the twees, the beauty of spwing is all awound.'

Anyway, back to all things Bwexit.

Truly stunning deconstruction of someone with a mild speech impediment. Bravo sir

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Truly stunning deconstruction of someone with a mild speech impediment. Bravo sir

No pwoblem.