Another new Brexit thread

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Only by their lackeys.

That's fair comment, george.

 

[mcfc1632]

It is. We outsource an array of competences for less cost than if we tried to do it in house. This includes trade where we get shiny new trade deals with Korea, Japan and latterly Mercosur countries thereby boosting our economy. A lot of our money goes on developing poorer countries in the EU so that they can expand their economies and we can sell them shit. Mainly services in our case. Oh and a lot of the poorer regions are in the U.K. so areas that would never see a penny get some nice EU gifts.

Probably the best £15.5 billion we will ever spend. It’s what only 5 Chris Grayling cock-ups? Bargain.

You identify the silver lining in EU membership.

If we Remain we will likely start to see more funding from the EU because we will certainly increase the number of UK regions that are listed amongst the poorest across the EU.

I can imagine Remainers on here coming on to celebrate that 'success'

Maybe some of those countries that have overtaken us will contribute?

 

[Blue Hefner]

Agreed .... the fact that our ministers attempted to embarrass Barnier by seating him on a chair that wobbled was a total embarrassment......

“1-0 Team Davies”, apparently.....

 

[mcfc1632]

Did you get a good rate for your euros?

No - fucking pisser that is - mind you my local is run by a mad keen City fan from N. I. And the beer is 2.5 euros a pint - so I will drown my sorrows

My local is going to become the first official MCFC Supporters club on the Island in September - so another distraction from the misery of exchange rates

And whilst stuck on the tarmac I hear Raheem has missed a penalty - the day just gets worse

 

[Vic]

It was a referendum where both parties and sides assured us they would abide by and implement the result. 'Advisory' was a a mere technicality - on 9 June 2015, the then Foreign Secretary said the “decision about our membership should be taken by the British people, not by Whitehall bureaucrats, certainly not by Brussels Eurocrats; not even by Government Ministers or parliamentarians in this Chamber”.

So many Leavers on here say their minds were made up before the vote so what was said and promised made no difference - except it seems for the bit about abiding by the result. I'd be happier accepting that promise as immutable if you'd accept that promising we'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border was fraudulent.

As Tony Benn would have pointed out...

 

[BobKowalski]

You identify the silver lining in EU membership.

If we Remain we will likely start to see more funding from the EU because we will certainly increase the number of UK regions that are listed amongst the poorest across the EU.

I can imagine Remainers on here coming on to celebrate that 'success'

Maybe some of those countries that have overtaken us will contribute?

I think that if the U.K. goes into decline relative to our European neighbours then very harsh questions needed to be asked of the people elected to govern this country. If comparable or lesser EU economies are doing better or even overtaking us then it’s fair to assume we are not making the best of our membership or it’s opportunities.

It’s a bit like joining a gym and wondering why everyone else is getting fitter and stronger than you. The weak response is blame the gym and cancel your membership. The honest response would be to first question what you are doing wrong and put that right.

Do you think this country has the balls to question itself or will we take the weak and easy route and blame everyone else? I think the last three years has shown that we will choose whining victimhood. It’s the Brexit way.

 

[George Hannah]

So many Leavers on here say their minds were made up before the vote so what was said and promised made no difference - except it seems for the bit about abiding by the result. I'd be happier accepting that promise as immutable if you'd accept that promising we'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border was fraudulent.

All parties agreed beforehand that the result of the referendum was final. Afterwards the losers refused to accept their defeat and betrayed the electorate.

 

[George Hannah]

That's fair comment, george.

It's George.

 

[Vic]

Well - statement of the obvious?

Apart from death and taxes nothing is certain

I would definitely have confidence in my speculation ahead of what seems to be the parroting of the Remainer mantras I read on here.

My speculation comes from personal analysis rather than that being abdicated to the Guardian and Soulbury.

Still speculation and still an analysis peculiar to you (with the vast majority of analysts against you and accepting that being in the EU has greatly benefited Britain and that your rumours of the death of the EU are greatly exaggerated).

 

[west didsblue]

All parties agreed beforehand that the result of the referendum was final. Afterwards the losers refused to accept their defeat and betrayed the electorate.

I thought it was the winners that failed to negotiate a smooth departure acceptable to the majority which included the hard line Brexiters. So it’s either the negotiators or the hard line Brexiters that have betrayed the electorate. Or both.

 

[BobKowalski]

All parties agreed beforehand that the result of the referendum was final. Afterwards the losers refused to accept their defeat and betrayed the electorate.

I’m included in that electorate. Not feeling betrayed at all. Next time you want to make statements on my behalf can I suggest running them by me first? Thanks in advance.

 

[hgblue]

I like this post a lot. I favour the U.K. becoming more integrated with the EU and an EU run on more federal lines but I do wonder if this post also encapsulates a degree of British exceptionalism and hubris that kind of got us into this mess in the first place. It’s the demand that 27 other countries agree to the way we think the EU should be set up and run or we leave. The thing about the the EU project is that every country is a stakeholder and every country has a view and a voice so by its very nature the EU will be a horse designed by a committee and that desirable change will always be incremental and that major change will only come when enough of the 28 countries are ready to take that next leap forward.

If we concede that the core of the EU project is not to repeat the horrors of the last century then surely taking a purist view of what the EU should be ‘or else’ is ultimately self defeating. We can’t help build something if we continually threaten to leave everytime it doesn’t go the way we want. We can’t tell 27 other countries that we will remain but only if they agree to do it the way we see fit because ultimately they will tell us, as they did with Cameron, to ‘get over ourselves’ and we end up with the Brexit shitshow which isn’t doing anyone any favours right now.

And here is the other thing. You didn’t vote because it didn’t give you the option you wanted? Really? Isn’t that the kind of arrogance that got us into this mess? A bloc of 28 countries trying to put together a project to remove barriers to trade and between people isn’t being run the way you want so screw it? Doesn’t even the attempt merit a begrudging vote for it?

You may favour a federal EU, but it now seems pretty clear that the country doesn’t, at least not in sufficient numbers for this situation to be sustainable. We don’t want to dictate to the other 27 how they run their affairs, but we have the right to insist that it’s not for us.

 

[George Hannah]

I’m included in that electorate. Not feeling betrayed at all. Next time you want to make statements on my behalf can I suggest running them by me first? Thanks in advance.

The decision of the electorate was betrayed and therefore the electorate - that means those who made the decision - undeniably was. You may not feel betrayed, (although no doubt you would if a vote to stay was reversed) but that doesn't mean you weren't simply that you don't recognise it.

 

[lust overlord]

The decision of the electorate was betrayed and therefore the electorate - that means those who made the decision - undeniably was. You may not feel betrayed, (although no doubt you would if a vote to stay was reversed) but that doesn't mean you weren't simply that you don't recognise it.

We've all been betrayed.

A referendum fought by politicians more concerned with personal power gains,and possibly further wealth.
They didn't set out to inform so we ended up with lie and counter lie.
Now we're in a situation that,despite knowing we were misled on a great many things,there are still people willing to believe the next set of lies these liars tell us.

Ridiculous.

 

[BobKowalski]

You may favour a federal EU, but it now seems pretty clear that the country doesn’t, at least not in sufficient numbers for this situation to be sustainable. We don’t want to dictate to the other 27 how they run their affairs, but we have the right to insist that it’s not for us.

Never said it did nor do any of the other E27 countries nor was my personal preference the main subject of my post.

And we do want to dictate. Our flouncing off was in part due to the E27 countries politely telling us to do one when we presented our list of demands.

 

[BobKowalski]

The decision of the electorate was betrayed and therefore the electorate - that means those who made the decision - undeniably was. You may not feel betrayed, (although no doubt you would if a vote to stay was reversed) but that doesn't mean you weren't simply that you don't recognise it.

Checked again and nope not feeling the slightest bit betrayed. It’s possible you may be projecting your own feelings onto others. Kindly desist.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Checked again and nope not feeling the slightest bit betrayed. It’s possible you may be projecting your own feelings onto others. Kindly desist.

You make an excellent point, but the fact that (most) remainers do not feel betrayed by the attempt to implement brexit since the vote perhaps casts some light on the dubious manner in which implementation of the referendum result has so far been conducted?

 

[hgblue]

Never said it did nor do any of the other E27 countries nor was my personal preference the main subject of my post.

And we do want to dictate. Our flouncing off was in part due to the E27 countries politely telling us to do one when we presented our list of demands.

Lol, flouncing off? The nation made a democratic decision.if the majority of the people don’t want to be in the EU then we shouldn’t be in the EU. Failing to accept that has delivered Nigel Farage at the head of the biggest party in the EU Parliament and is about to deliver Boris Johnson as PM.

 

[BobKowalski]

You make an excellent point, but the fact that (most) remainers do not feel betrayed by the attempt to implement brexit since the vote perhaps casts some light on the dubious manner in which implementation of the referendum result has so far been conducted?

You mean when the U.K. Govt negotiated a legal means to leave the EU and thereby fulfill the mandate of the referendum and Brexit MPs went full Pol Pot, shat all over it and declared that the North Korean model not Norway was now their preferred option on Brexit?

Personally I think Parliament now has a duty to the country to fuck Brexit off. Brexiteers had their chance, didn’t take it so they can fuck off. Preferably to North Korea.

 

[BobKowalski]

Lol, flouncing off? The nation made a democratic decision.if the majority of the people don’t want to be in the EU then we shouldn’t be in the EU. Failing to accept that has delivered Nigel Farage at the head of the biggest party in the EU Parliament and is about to deliver Boris Johnson as PM.

Actually it’s around 120,000 largely senile and incontinent geriatrics that are about to deliver Johnson as PM.