Another new Brexit thread

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The country can implode as far as the brexit ringleaders are concerned, they are set to clean up no matter what. No reputation to worry about, no witch hunt from the brexit media, no one being held to account, just as long as they force brexit maximus then job done. 3 years of lies and fake news coming nicely to the boil, singapore-on-thames just about there, the NHS on US Ebay, the gfa ripped up, no backstop.Jeez what a great time to be a billionaire anti-democratic thatcherist.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
I would also say that there is a "fear" among loyalists/unionists that Britain would rather just dump us
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There’s a fear down here too.
There’s an element in London that would drop you in an instant and there’s an element down here that would be opportunistic about it, but to be honest I think the majority down here would not like it to happen like this.
Most agree it would be equally as divisive as Brexit.
There would need to be a sizable majority in favour on both sides of the border.

And there would still be trouble.
Everyone goes on about the risk of dissident republicans causing trouble but there is a loyalist element that would never accept a 32 county Ireland of any description and they never decommissioned.
 
hgblue said:
They are not willing to ditch the backstop so there is no point negotiating, why is that so difficult to grasp?
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It isn’t, we’ve made it very clear on the Remain side, George said Ireland were refusing to meet Johnson and were acting poorly, when in reality it’s Johnson.

By the way, are you saying no deal isn’t working to bargain with?
 
"The Federated Republic of Europe is what we must be, The United States of Europe. National autonomy no longer suffices. Economic evolution demands the abolition of national frontiers. If Europe is to remain split into national groups, then Imperialism will recommence its work. Only a Federated Republic of Europe can bring peace to the world"

Fuck me, Trotsky was a remainer :))
 
BobKowalski said:
And according to the ERG ultras, Raab et al removing the backstop may not be sufficient for a deal so what exactly is the UK proposal to facilitate a deal and negate the need for a backstop? Would it not make sense to communicate and discuss this face to with E27 leaders? Or is sulking at home and refusing to talk the way we do business now?

We need more other than ‘give me what I want or I’ll scream and scream until I’m sick’
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Give me what I want (a second referendum).
 
Ban-jani said:
It isn’t, we’ve made it very clear on the Remain side, George said Ireland were refusing to meet Johnson and were acting poorly, when in reality it’s Johnson.

By the way, are you saying no deal isn’t working to bargain with?
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Boris isn’t behaving badly, it’s simply not worth meeting in person if there’s no room for manoeuvre on the backstop.
 
hgblue said:
Boris isn’t behaving badly, it’s simply not worth meeting in person if there’s no room for manoeuvre on the backstop.
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But then he’s saying he’s optimistic a deal can be done?

He’s lying to you and you’re buying it.

Also if they really won’t budge on the backstop, what’s the fucking point of using no deal as a bargaining chip, when all it’s going to do is absolutely cripple the country?

We’re fucking insane on this island.
 
hgblue said:
They are not willing to ditch the backstop so there is no point negotiating, why is that so difficult to grasp?
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If it was Ireland leaving the EU not us, we would be insisting on the backstop with our other EU partners against them.

We have a choice or 3

Accept the backstop as the temporary but unpalatable measure it is (there are far worse conditions in the WA than that)
And sort out a permament solution in the teade talls.

Make NI a overseas/special teritory and let it stay in the customs union with a sea border set for us in Britain.

Do fuck all leave and have a hard border, possible return to the tensions in Ireland.

Oh and also the unthinkable on here and to many, just remain.
 
urban genie said:
If it was Ireland leaving the EU not us, we would be insisting on the backstop with our other EU partners against them.

We have a choice or 3

Accept the backstop as the temporary but unpalatable measure it is (there are far worse conditions in the WA than that)
And sort out a permament solution in the teade talls.

Make NI a overseas/special teritory and let it stay in the customs union with a sea border set for us in Britain.

Do fuck all leave and have a hard border, possible return to the tensions in Ireland.

Oh and also the unthinkable on here and to many, just remain.
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The sensible option is to negotiate....... to remain in the Customs Union & Single Market until a technical solution is developed that satisfies the requirements of an electronic customs border and is acceptable to all parties.

This would remove the political union and be the driver for the technological advance necessary for the UK to exit. But it would mean that we would for a period have to live with freedom of movement of labour.


But I did say 'Sensible' and the Leavers and ERG Ultras are not 'sensible' because it's not about immigration is it?
 
hgblue said:
Boris isn’t behaving badly, it’s simply not worth meeting in person if there’s no room for manoeuvre on the backstop.
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His pre-condition isn’t an adjustment, it’s removing it completely. He obviously knows that won’t be conceded without discussion so it’s as clear as day that he doesn’t want to negotiate and wants to blame the EU. Sadly quite a few will believe him.
 
hgblue said:
Boris isn’t behaving badly, it’s simply not worth meeting in person if there’s no room for manoeuvre on the backstop.
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Then put forward concrete proposals that can be implemented and remove the need for a backstop. ‘Be part of the solution not part of the problem’ as I was often told in my moody teens.

Also this is dumb politics and just makes it easy for Dublin, EU, European leaders and opposition in the U.K. The idea is to confound your opponents not give them an open goal.
 
BobKowalski said:
Then put forward concrete proposals that can be implemented and remove the need for a backstop. ‘Be part of the solution not part of the problem’ as I was often told in my moody teens.

Also this is dumb politics and just makes it easy for Dublin, EU, European leaders and opposition in the U.K. The idea is to confound your opponents not give them an open goal.
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There is a 200 page document that describes in great detail how the border could operate using existing technology. This is the way forward, not the backstop, but the EU have made it clear that the WA is not negotiable.
 
hgblue said:
There is a 200 page document that describes in great detail how the border could operate using existing technology. This is the way forward, not the backstop, but the EU have made it clear that the WA is not negotiable.
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As I keep asking can it detect chlorinated chicken* being smuggled in on it's own or amongst approved goods by unapproved ( or even trusted) traders?
I needs to know man!

* and any other non EU approved goods
 
George Hannah said:
Its what they used to call Realpolitik BJ - two sets of gangsters waiting for the other to make a move. Your invective is equally applicable.
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Many politicians are cunts and I reserve my right to call this politician an uber, colossal and mahoosive ****.
 
hgblue said:
There is a 200 page document that describes in great detail how the border could operate using existing technology. This is the way forward, not the backstop, but the EU have made it clear that the WA is not negotiable.
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Yeah. It really doesn’t. Because if you stopped to think about do you really think 27 European nations and the U.K. are going to risk the potential for economic chaos, putting relationships between the U.K. and the E27 in the deep freeze and reigniting the troubles in NI by blindly refusing to accept that existing tech can do the job?

Is Johnson waving this document around demanding to know why it’s not been implemented or travelling to the NI border communities with his team of tech advisors explaining and reassuring the communities that there is no need to worry and this document will explain how it will all work and lambasting the EU and Dublin for their intransigence? Is this happening? Is Johnson hotfooting to Dublin with his team and putting Dublin on the spot and asking hard questions and demanding answers on this document?

No he isn’t. In fact there is no engagement whatsoever with Dublin or even an inclination to talk to them. Yet apparently we have the solution in our hands? A solution that Johnson has so far failed to mention? Has he talked about his solution for removing the backstop?
 
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