Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

It’s why a deal will be done.

Geographically Ireland is stranded and 100% needs the UK to ship through as we also need them.

Trade yes, political union no.

100%?

There are sea routes that go straight from mainland Europe to ports in the RoI, believe it or not.

 

[Metal Biker]

Our PM is sure they will if we threaten no-deal for long enough. But putting that to one side, if the UK said ok this has been a fuck up from start to finish but politically we need to go though with it but we don't want to burn all bridges and do not want to threaten the break up of the UK. So let's scrub out the red-lines, we are happy to stay in the CU(or as near that makes no difference) and we are happy to keep FoM(just change the name). What is wrong with that?

the obvious answer is, that would not be a 'real' Brexit and round and round we go. So, they probably won't renegotiate as what we currently have is a UK problem. A problem that, at least as things stand, is unsolvable because we cannot get a better deal than being a member. As a result, there are not enough people prepared to accept that we will have a lower standing in the world. Until that reality is accepted, we are not going to get anywhere as a country

Most of us aren't bothered about FoM, the one who was and wanted it scrapped was.... Theresa May.

Her "backstop" was a way of scrapping FoM but keeping the GFA intact. Scrap May's FoM red line and the GFA ceases to be an issue. We agree to trade on free tarriffs, keep certain accessible laws, UK free to do trade outside the EU, FoM still as unimpacting as it ever was, job done.

This is MAY'S fuck up, no the UK's, and she's gone. As you remainers like to keep telling us "there is no concensus on brexit".... except there is, and it involves being out of the customs union. It's as simple as that.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Unworkable here having the meaning of the EU unwiling to be flexible.

Canada and Japan managed it, EU even offered such similar deals to May, but she herself rejected them on the basis she wanted to end FoM, something few actually care about ending in the grand scheme of things. Continue trade with Europe, but allow the UK to trade with other nations and build partnerships outside of it, unrestricted by EU rules. All I want.

Do you honestly think that of those who voted to leave "few cared about" FoM and Immigration? All the evidence points the other way - this report is into a post referendum survey which shows evidence that wasn't the case

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...in-reason-european-union-survey-a7811651.html

And the fastest growing newly launched party is the BP - this article re-iterates Farage's views on immigrants and people flocked to him and his party in only a few months

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...erver-view-on-european-elections-nigel-farage

Like it or not the truth is that immigrants, FoM - just foreigners in general was what drove an awful lot of Leave voters

 

[Metal Biker]

Weren’t the Eu linking the Canada deal to an Irish Sea backstop so it was rejected?

Possibly due to May's red lines on FoM.

I'd accept a "Super Canada" style deal right now. If that puts the DUP's nose out of joint who gives a smeg, especially since we're told most in NI are approving of such a scenario anyway.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Possibly due to May's red lines on FoM.

I'd accept a "Super Canada" style deal right now. If that puts the DUP's nose out of joint who gives a smeg, especially since we're told most in NI are approving of such a scenario anyway.

Johnson gives a smeg because if he puts the DUP's collective noses out and loses their support he has no majority and this is now all about keeping Johnson and the Tory Party in office - as our noble PM might put it himself " the country can go fuck itself"

 

[west didsblue]

Most of us aren't bothered about FoM, the one who was and wanted it scrapped was.... Theresa May.

Her "backstop" was a way of scrapping FoM but keeping the GFA intact. Scrap May's FoM red line and the GFA ceases to be an issue. We agree to trade on free tarriffs, keep certain accessible laws, UK free to do trade outside the EU, FoM still as unimpacting as it ever was, job done.

This is MAY'S fuck up, no the UK's, and she's gone. As you remainers like to keep telling us "there is no concensus on brexit".... except there is, and it involves being out of the customs union. It's as simple as that.

Most of you?
It was the main thing Vote Leave campaigned on.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

They've offered BoJo a super canada deal?

In the words of Aguero 93:20, liiiiiink? Genuinely, i'd like to see if that's what the EU has offered to Boris.

They have said " no more negotiations".

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You seriously expect me to fall for that disingenuous shite you were peddling in which you get to air your nonsense and end with a ‘of course I rise above it and only think of the positives for our wonderful Health service’ bollocks?

Full marks for optimism but you post shite you get a kicking.

You are an angry little chap bob. It seems you've at least bothered to read the 'shite' I posted this time - well done you! Now give your computer a wipe and chill buddy.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Most of us aren't bothered about FoM, the one who was and wanted it scrapped was.... Theresa May.

Her "backstop" was a way of scrapping FoM but keeping the GFA intact. Scrap May's FoM red line and the GFA ceases to be an issue. We agree to trade on free tarriffs, keep certain accessible laws, UK free to do trade outside the EU, FoM still as unimpacting as it ever was, job done.

This is MAY'S fuck up, no the UK's, and she's gone. As you remainers like to keep telling us "there is no concensus on brexit".... except there is, and it involves being out of the customs union. It's as simple as that.

Which would leave us still having to follow the rules without having a say. Which might be fine with you but it is a worse position than we are in now and there aren't enough people willing to accept that

 

[BobKowalski]

It’s why a deal will be done.

Geographically Ireland is stranded and 100% needs the UK to ship through as we also need them.

Trade yes, political union no.

For the E27 the two are indivisible. I’d caveat by saying there is no appetite for full political union but in order to facilitate trade you need a degree of political cohesion, shared rules and shared sovereignty. Norway and Switzerland may not be EU members but to get the trade benefits of the EU they have to sign up to the rules and that option is the best we are going to get. Otherwise it’s isolation and that is not sustainable.

 

[blueinsa]

100%?

There are sea routes that go straight from mainland Europe to ports in the RoI, believe it or not.

No doubt but it’s a hell of a length of crossing hence the reliance on the UK and it’s road network to Irish trade.

 

[Metal Biker]

Which would leave us still having to follow the rules without having a say. Which might be fine with you but it is a worse position than we are in now and there aren't enough people willing to accept that

Canada has to, Japan has to, them's the breaks when dealing with the EU, i'm afraid. But neither Canada nor Japan are politically unified with the EU. That's the difference, and for many it's a biiiig one!

Besides, we had a "say", but we influenced very little. If we did, we wouldn't be in the position we are now, would we?

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

It’s why a deal will be done.

Geographically Ireland is stranded and 100% needs the UK to ship through as we also need them.

Trade yes, political union no.

I wouldn't say 100%. They have been spending a lot of money on updating their ports to enable (and have already started) bigger RoRo direct shipping from Ireland to mainland Europe but I would be astounded if they could convert all of their trade to be sent that way. They should be fully upgraded by 2023 when the access to Dublin Port is complete.

What that leaves as trade having to pass through the UK could be minimal by then. It's the period from now until then that is important.

 

[KS55]

7) You influence law making in the UK now... that's what Parliament does. No one else in Europe is talking about banning hand free car phones this morning .. but we are. No one else is talking about making prison sentences harsher today .. but we are. The Eu is about harmonisation

Just caught up with this. It seems to give the impression that the EU has no effect on sovereignty. That is not correct.
1. The EU requires directives to be implemented into national law. Exactly how this is done is left up to each state, but you cannot swerve a directive. Failure to implement adequately can result in liability to damages at the ECJ.
2. EU regulations do not require subsidiarity, but automatically become part of each state's law.
3 The European Arrest Warrant changed several country's laws and seriously .impacted our criminal justice system.
So sovereignty is an issue. Note that this issue went to Germany's highest court, which ruled that German law was superior to EU law!

 

[Vic]

For the E27 the two are indivisible. I’d caveat by saying there is no appetite for full political union but in order to facilitate trade you need a degree of political cohesion, shared rules and shared sovereignty. Norway and Switzerland may not be EU members but to get the trade benefits of the EU they have to sign up to the rules and that option is the best we are going to get. Otherwise it’s isolation and that is not sustainable.

Henning Wehn again...

Well done on achieving Germany's 19th century ambition of isolating Britain.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

No doubt but it’s a hell of a length of crossing hence the reliance on the UK and it’s road network to Irish trade.

Cork to Rotterdam, 708 nautical miles minimum. Their ferries travel at an average 18.8 knots so that's about 37hrs and 40mins.





At a guess.

 

[BobKowalski]

Canada has to, Japan has to, them's the breaks when dealing with the EU, i'm afraid. But neither Canada nor Japan are politically unified with the EU. That's the difference, and for many it's a biiiig one!

Besides, we had a "say", but we influenced very little. If we did, we wouldn't be in the position we are now, would we?

More tedious bollocks. Course we had a fucking say and were listened to. It’s by listening to us that we got the Single Market and expanded the EU eastwards. For the love of God learn some facts before posting wibbling shite.

 

[aguero93:20]

How about we discuss what we were talking about.

Because this is what happens:

I provide links, you pick apart those links defending the EU from a Europhile standpoint, I then have to give my point of view and all of a sudden we're discussing the links, rather than what we're talking about.

Not falling for it. Discuss the EU union and the UK union and how the GFA is not being fully respected by the EU, otherwise it would not be an issue.

So you can't point to an instance of the EU breaking international trade law then?

 

[Metal Biker]

So you can't point to an instance of the EU breaking international trade law then?

Yes I can, but I told you that's not what we're discussing. And now we've reached the point where the initial topic has been forgotten. Well done.

 

[west didsblue]

No doubt but it’s a hell of a length of crossing hence the reliance on the UK and it’s road network to Irish trade.

Yeah, probably saves about 10 hours but there's an extra sea crossing so if that's delayed maybe not even that and if we're out of the CU, there WILL be delays.
It's hardly insurmountable.