Another new Brexit thread

[robbieh]

Put a bet on at the bookies and shove £100 on the underdog, the underdog wins and you go into the bookies to collect your money only to be told the bet in nul and void because you didn't state how the underdog would win.
I know a lot of people won't agree with this but let's deselect every MP who has tried to circumvent the the result have another general election and then have another referendum.

And I hope Tories in remain seats who vote to leave also get deselected.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Re-watch the PMs speech on the referendum prior to the 2016 vote note and inwardly digest. because he clearly says it is just to be sure people knew what they were voting for.

Doesn't matter what he said (anyway Tories lie all the time) or what they printed on the leaflet ...for a referendum to be binding it has to be agreed by Parliament prior to the vote


it wasn't

 

[aguero93:20]

They are desperately trying to aren't they? The real question should be Have we left yet? Remove the lot of them hire a new lot and have another referendum is the only way to fix this.

Desperately trying to? How many motions have they tabled to do so?

 

[west didsblue]

I’m not entirely sure why the government would be opposed to the Letwin amendment. Unless they’re either not confident in their own deal or they are actually seeking a no deal Brexit.

I’m fairly sure.
And it’s nothing to do with their pursuit of getting a deal through that’s beneficial to this country.

 

[George Hannah]

Yes, so explain to me how they're bound? What would stop them repealing article 50?

You need to start by considering the promise made by Parliament to the electorate through the referendum terms and process. Only the sovereign body could pass on its obligations to decide on whether to leave the EU to the electorate and undertake to honour the outcome. In philosophical terms that promise was a perlocutionary act, essentially a performative utterance that changed reality.

 

[mexico1970]

And I hope Tories in remain seats who vote to leave also get deselected.

Of course they should, their party should be irrelevant.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I’m not entirely sure why the government would be opposed to the Letwin amendment. Unless they’re either not confident in their own deal or they are actually seeking a no deal Brexit.

Oh .... what are you saying ?

 

[aguero93:20]

You need to start by considering the prromise made by Parliament to the electorate through the referendum terms and process. Only the sovereign body could pass on its obligations to decide on whether to leave the EU to the electorate and undertake to honour the outcome. In philosophical terms that promise was a perlocutionary act, essentially a performative utterance that changed reality.

And if they vote as a majority to repeal it today does this perlocutionary act stop article 50 from being revoked?

 

[mexico1970]

Desperately trying to? How many motions have they tabled to do so?

They don't have to table a motion all they have to do is vote it down every time which is what they are doing. Get rid of the lot of them.

 

[Rascal]

It's official as if we didn't all already know.

Affluent, suit and tie , middle class south east votes are now worth more than northern working class votes. Aided, abetted, and enabled by the labour party under privately educated Jeremy Corbyn, privately educated John McDonnell, and selectively grammar school educated Jess "working class honest guv, listen to my fake accent and ignore my entirely middle class privileged background" Phillips .

The day the north, the poor, the £8.50/hour working class were officially told by their masters "you're scum, you're filth, you're ignorant, and unless we're asking you to fight and die in illegal foreign wars of conquest, you're also completely invisible to us.

I posted last night that Labour should have seriously thought about backing the deal as they could then claim all the credit for Brexit whilst leaving the Tory rebels to look the bad guys.

The spanner in the works was the removal of the level playing field on working rights. It would have been very hard as a Labour MP to vote for something that did that. It turned into a clever trap as Johnson can escape blame and turn it on the opposition, which is what he always wanted anyway imo because I am not convinced Johnson wanted his deal to succeed because the way he performed in the House was approaching abysmal. I really do think today has been as much about Johnson positioning himself to win the next election and cementing his power than it was about Brexit. I am also not convinced Johnson is actually a brexiteer at all, it was just a route to power for him.

 

[blueinsa]

And I hope Tories in remain seats who vote to leave also get deselected.

That would take constituency offices be also remain and my guess is they wont be.

Truth is these are the final days for many Tory rebels and they will be replaced by people far more to the right and far more committed to brexit.

Been said many times on here but be careful what you wish for as frustrating brexit, even a deal that was demanded will only lead to a new parliament and i will wager you will like it even less than this one.

 

[aguero93:20]

And I hope Tories in remain seats who vote to leave also get deselected.

Johnson and Rees Mogg are 2 who might according to polls.

 

[blueish swede]

I’m not entirely sure why the government would be opposed to the Letwin amendment. Unless they’re either not confident in their own deal or they are actually seeking a no deal Brexit.

Or they don't have a clue and are just winging it.

 

[aguero93:20]

They don't have to table a motion all they have to do is vote it down every time which is what they are doing. Get rid of the lot of them.

Especially the ERG and DUP who've voted against every WA so far?

 

[George Hannah]

And if they vote as a majority to repeal it today does this perlocutionary act stop article 50 from being revoked?

That would be another perlocutionary act, and the legal principle is the new replaces the old, so yes, but it would the empty the first promise of its purpose thereby undermining the next.

 

[mexico1970]

Especially the ERG and DUP who've voted against every WA so far?

Yes of course, I said every MP not just ones from a particular party.

 

[aguero93:20]

That would be another perlocutionary act, and the legal principle is the new replaces the old, so yes, but it would the empty the first promise of its purpose thereby undermining the next.

So they're not bound then.

 

[rickmcfc]

Please excuse my frustration, lack of knowledge but what the fuck has actually happened today? All week everyone has been banging on about how Boris needed 320 voted for the deal to go through. He got 322 so what is now happening on Monday?

 

[aguero93:20]

Yes of course, I said every MP not just ones from a particular party.

You'll never get a majority in the HOC for Brexit without the biggest and longest supporters of it though.

 

[Rascal]

That's not the point I am making really, what they are doing is murdering the democratic process of this country

No they are not, they are trying to interpret the effects of direct democracy in a system of representative democracy. Its square pegs in round holes.

I warned of this outcome before the referendum was held, it is just nonsensical to have a referendum without constitutional provision.